Archive for the ‘#guncontrol’ Tag

Civility Takes a Holiday   Leave a comment

These are the comments from the headline story on the Alexandria shooting.

Retired Chief

3 days ago

CNN did an interview today about the DC shooting with a Republican Congressman from Illinois (can’t remember his name). He was poised and thoughtful. He didn’t focus on the 2nd Amendment or refer to the gun issue at all. Instead, he expressed his view that this horrific event may well be traced to the hate and polarization that exists in America today. I think the Congressman is spot on. This hate is fueled through social media, talk radio, deliberate dissemination of false information, promulgation of ridiculous conspiracy theories, and the “my way or the highway” sickness that has infected our society and our politics.

We all, to one degree or another, are participants and complicit in this situation, which more than any foreign country represents the greatest threat to our democracy and our Republic. All citizens need to look at themselves in the mirror and ask if we are contributing to this poisonous hate and intolerance. A citizen with different point of view is not your enemy.

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Shawn O’Donnell

3 days ago

To steer clear of the 2nd amendment, on this issue and blame it on polarization is intellectually dishonest. Yes, there is massive polarization in this nation and much of it has to do with guns and the availability of them.

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Lynda Hadley

3 days ago

In reply to:

CNN did an interview today about the DC shooting with a Republican Congressman from Illinois (can’t remember his name). He was poised and thoughtful. He didn’t focus on the 2nd Amendment or refer…

— Retired Chief

Retired Chief: Excellent comment..unfortunately, the Commander in Chief disagrees.

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just_another_patriot

3 days ago

In reply to:

CNN did an interview today about the DC shooting with a Republican Congressman from Illinois (can’t remember his name). He was poised and thoughtful. He didn’t focus on the 2nd Amendment or refer…

— Retired Chief

Hate is the common denominator of these mass shootings regardless of ideology or mental health. This particular incident is just another one in a continuing string. We need to have a conversation about how we preserve safety and security in our society without turning into a police state or devolving into armed camps.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

To steer clear of the 2nd amendment, on this issue and blame it on polarization is intellectually dishonest. Yes, there is massive polarization in this nation and much of it has to do with guns and…

— Shawn O’Donnell

My right to own and use firearms has nothing to do with how polarized you want to be from that, Shawn. It’s only been in recent years that your kind has decided to dictate the availability to others– why is that? Gun crimes have decreased while gun ownership has increased– but what does that have to do with your zealotry?

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

To steer clear of the 2nd amendment, on this issue and blame it on polarization is intellectually dishonest. Yes, there is massive polarization in this nation and much of it has to do with guns and…

— Shawn O’Donnell

So how do you explain the shooting deaths in countries where private ownership of guns is largely banned … you know, France, England …. Is it the 2nd Amendment causing that or political and/or religious hatred? Just curious about how you justify your stance.

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Retired Chief

3 days ago

In reply to:

My right to own and use firearms has nothing to do with how polarized you want to be from that, Shawn. It’s only been in recent years that your kind has decided to dictate the availability to…

— Lars Bauer

Lars, your use of the term “your kind” is exactly what I was trying to speak to. You and Shawn obviously have dramatically different points of view relative to the whole gun rights issue. But why use the term “your kind”? Vilifying someone with whom you disagree just feeds the hatred, intolerance and polarization that seems to permeate our society and politics today. This is what I believe most threatens our Republic.

I’m a Centrist Independent – yes, there’s a few of us still around. I’m also a pragmatist. To the Right and vocal 2nd Amendment advocates, I’d assert that the politics of gun rights and gun control are such that nothing is going to change. Gun control advocates are naïve in thinking that further gun control legislation is possible. It didn’t happen even after Sandy Hook. 2nd Amendment advocates worry and fret over nothing. New gun control laws just ain’t gonna happen. Politics and the citizen divide on the issue will preclude anything but perpetuation of the status quo.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

To steer clear of the 2nd amendment, on this issue and blame it on polarization is intellectually dishonest. Yes, there is massive polarization in this nation and much of it has to do with guns and…

— Shawn O’Donnell

There is a polarization of this country based not on guns but rather freedom and personal responsibility. Gun control does not work as Chicago clearly illustrates.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Lars, your use of the term “your kind” is exactly what I was trying to speak to. You and Shawn obviously have dramatically different points of view relative to the whole gun rights issue. But why…

— Retired Chief

Chief- stop trying to use moral equivalency between me and Shawn. Just because “we disagree” doesn’t mean there isn’t an objective truth out there on the matter of my inalienable rights. Using the term “your kind” doesn’t mean I “hate” him– you’re projecting that, not me.

.

“When your sparring partner scratches or head-butts you, you don’t then make a show of it, or protest, or view him with suspicion or as plotting against you. And yet you keep an eye on him, not as an enemy or with suspicion, but with a healthy avoidance…. You should act this way with all things in life. We should give a pass to many things with our fellow trainees. For, as I’ve said, it’s possible to avoid without suspicion or hate.” — Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, 6.20

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I avoid “his kind.” and as long as they don’t act in a way to disturb my rights, I don’t “hate” him.

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Retired Chief

3 days ago

Come on Lars, I suspect you’re better and smarter than the words in your response. Your “inalienable rights” (presumably 2nd Amendment rights) are not an issue for me nor are they at risk today and certainly not in our lifetimes – legal and political reality! Your rights in the real world are not threatened. So don’t lose sleep or fret about your 2nd Amendment rights.

I totally don’t get your use of “moral equivalency” in the context of these exchanges. I didn’t say or imply that you “hate” Shawn. But words matter. If I were to say in a comment to you something like “people of your kind….”, wouldn’t you feel insulted, perhaps even angry?

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Shawn O’Donnell

3 days ago

In reply to:

My right to own and use firearms has nothing to do with how polarized you want to be from that, Shawn. It’s only been in recent years that your kind has decided to dictate the availability to…

— Lars Bauer

My Kind? Mr Bauer, I own firearms and I assure you I have fired more rounds out of more types of weapons than you can dream of, I was an expert rifleman and sniper in the army. Now that we have got that out of the way, show me a source that says gun crimes have gone down, cut and past a link go ahead. I

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Shawn O’Donnell

3 days ago

In reply to:

So how do you explain the shooting deaths in countries where private ownership of guns is largely banned … you know, France, England …. Is it the 2nd Amendment causing that or political and/or…

— Lela Markham

I’ll tell you how I justify my stance, first the second amendment does not say what people say it says, it clearly states militia. Second, yes there, have a been a few a very limited amount of gun deaths in those nations, but come on, we kill more in Chicago in one weekend than they do in a year. How many school yard shootings do they have? There gun deaths are news worthy here it is ho hum. Meanwhile you fail to list ALL of the other nations that have restrictions on fire arms, Canada, Germany, Spain Italy, Singapore, Japan, Australia and on and on.

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Shawn O’Donnell

3 days ago

In reply to:

There is a polarization of this country based not on guns but rather freedom and personal responsibility. Gun control does not work as Chicago clearly illustrates.

— Patrick Messmer

What? What gun control, that is the point, there is no control, I could fly to Chicago and buy a gun tomorrow. So total access to firearms works? If that is the case we should be the safest nation in the world right? I have a better chance of being killed by another American than I do by any Terrorist, Muslim or otherwise.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Chief- stop trying to use moral equivalency between me and Shawn. Just because “we disagree” doesn’t mean there isn’t an objective truth out there on the matter of my inalienable rights. Using the…

— Lars Bauer

I strongly doubt that Marcus Aurelius used anything like term “head butt.”

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

I’ll tell you how I justify my stance, first the second amendment does not say what people say it says, it clearly states militia. Second, yes there, have a been a few a very limited amount of gun…

— Shawn O’Donnell

It says the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed your cherry picking and only including the last part and less important part of the text. A constitutional scholar you are not

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Clay McD

3 days ago

In reply to:

So how do you explain the shooting deaths in countries where private ownership of guns is largely banned … you know, France, England …. Is it the 2nd Amendment causing that or political and/or…

— Lela Markham

You know, legitimate statistical data actually has uses.. Why don’t you try again?

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Clay McD

3 days ago

In reply to:

So how do you explain the shooting deaths in countries where private ownership of guns is largely banned … you know, France, England …. Is it the 2nd Amendment causing that or political and/or…

— Lela Markham

The social logical causes are one thing; but the weapons they get out of the hands of the military are the proximate cause – and if you understand statistics, you’re probably aware that the gun deaths per 100,000 in Europe – in any European country today – are far lower than they are in the United States.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

My Kind? Mr Bauer, I own firearms and I assure you I have fired more rounds out of more types of weapons than you can dream of, I was an expert rifleman and sniper in the army. Now that we have got…

— Shawn O’Donnell

I dunno, Shawn– I can “dream” of a lot. Oh- and here’s the link, ‘soldier’, I guess Google searches vex you:

(From the Leftist Washington Post): ‘We’ve had a massive decline in gun violence in the United States:’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?utm_term=.3b8a93da65d6

.

‘Gun-Homicide Rate Decreased as Gun Ownership Increased:’

http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/cnsnewscom-staff/more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

I’ll tell you how I justify my stance, first the second amendment does not say what people say it says, it clearly states militia. Second, yes there, have a been a few a very limited amount of gun…

— Shawn O’Donnell

Try reading the Federalist papers- do you know what our FoundingFathers thought of militias? SCOTUS disagrees with you. Yes- we have more gun violence than countries that ban people’s right to protect themselves with guns– of course we do: if a country banned cars, do you think their incidents of automobile accidents would go up, or down? These countries’ views on rights are much different than ours- AND they are almost entirely homogeneous: if we take certain cities and demographics out of the equation, our crime rates in those areas would mimic a place like Germany’s.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

What? What gun control, that is the point, there is no control, I could fly to Chicago and buy a gun tomorrow. So total access to firearms works? If that is the case we should be the safest nation…

— Shawn O’Donnell

“I could fly to Chicago and buy a gun tomorrow.”

.

Absolutely false: Illinois policy says a buyer is required to show his Firearms Owner’s Identification Card (FOID) when purchasing any firearms or ammunition (you don’t have one). Any seller is required to withhold delivery of any handgun for 72 hours (there goes “tomorrow”), and of any rifle or shotgun for 24 hours, after the buyer and seller reach an agreement to purchase a firearm.

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Firearms are the most legislated item in America- period. From permits, licenses, restrictive fees and some states requiring you prove you have a reason to buy it (New Jersey), thank God many of these zealots are being challenged and beaten in court:

http://www.guns.com/2017/01/30/new-jersey-man-fights-state-gun-permit-law-all-the-way-to-supreme-court/

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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435564/gun-rights-new-jersey-violates-second-amendment-so-congress-should-intervene

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

I strongly doubt that Marcus Aurelius used anything like term “head butt.”

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

You’re probably right- head butting wasn’t invented until the 1890’s, right? “I strongly doubt” you’ve read Bazooka Joe, let alone Aurelius.

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TerryL

2 days ago

In reply to:

To steer clear of the 2nd amendment, on this issue and blame it on polarization is intellectually dishonest. Yes, there is massive polarization in this nation and much of it has to do with guns and…

— Shawn O’Donnell

I believe the man was spot on, Shawn. This unrest that is going from the usual civil disobedience that past political dissatisfaction caused, to bloodshed. The People ARE angry, and have been for 30 years. We’ve seen nothing work for the favor of the middle class. Trickle UP is what has happened. People under 45 today do NOT earn what I did in 1974! And you have none of the benefits. Our wealth, our SECURITY, came from making sure that the BASE of the nation, the middle class, was treated fairly. It no longer is, and has not been since 1980. I can understand why violence like this is happening. And, the politicians are the root cause.Those that are not, are the exception but to those ‘others’ they are as complicit. They will receive the same sanctions. American workers, the great bulk of who/what the USA is, have been harmed again and again. Why anyone is shocked that it’s finally turned to violence surprises me. Perhaps talk time is over?

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Matthew Carberry 382

2 days ago

In reply to:

So how do you explain the shooting deaths in countries where private ownership of guns is largely banned … you know, France, England …. Is it the 2nd Amendment causing that or political and/or…

— Lela Markham

Lela,

Gun control in most of Europe (as in US and the Euro colonies), is a modern invention, dating for the most part to post-WWI era when establishment fears of large numbers of armed and trained veterans, coinciding with rise of anarchism and Socialism (usually blamed on foreigners, usually subtly or not, eastern Euro Jews) as political threats to estab. order. Politicians made the same claims of increased crime rates and danger to society to disarm the law-abiding in what were already very low violence societies. England’s first substantive restriction, for instance, was a licensing program enacted in 1920. Restrictions gradually increased to the confiscation of registered firearms and handgun bans of the ’80s.

However, what is ignored is -none- of these laws shows a stat sig decrease in rate trends of homicide or violent crime from prior to enactment. They show -no- measurable impact on public safety. England, for instance, has had effectively the same homicide rate since 1860’s.

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Patrick Messmer

2 days ago

In reply to:

What? What gun control, that is the point, there is no control, I could fly to Chicago and buy a gun tomorrow. So total access to firearms works? If that is the case we should be the safest nation…

— Shawn O’Donnell

You could go outside and buy crack on most street corners too and guess what that is illegal too. You can not legally go to Chicago and buy a gun tomorrow. The simple fact is gun control does not work. The cities in the US with the harshes gun control have the highest violent crime rates such as New York, Washington DC, LA.

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Matthew Carberry 382

2 days ago

In reply to:

My Kind? Mr Bauer, I own firearms and I assure you I have fired more rounds out of more types of weapons than you can dream of, I was an expert rifleman and sniper in the army. Now that we have got…

— Shawn O’Donnell

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/violent-crime

It’s not particularly controversial to note that all violent crime rates, including homicide, are far lower than their highs in the mid-90s. You can check the FBI UCR’s year by year if you like but the chart in the link is based on that data.

Violent crimes as a group are homicide, in the US typically involving a firearm about 60% of the time off the top of my head, aggravated assault, which typically involves the use of a weapon, and robbery, which requires force and also typically involves a weapon. It would be an extraordinary claim that somehow the firearm as the weapon used rates have increased significantly enough to claim a meaningful “increase” given the stark decrease in overall rates.

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Patrick Messmer

2 days ago

In reply to:

Come on Lars, I suspect you’re better and smarter than the words in your response. Your “inalienable rights” (presumably 2nd Amendment rights) are not an issue for me nor are they at risk today and…

— Retired Chief

Our rights are being threatened by people like Bloomberg, Clinton etc. While we do have a 4 year reprieve. If the left gains power again they will once again try to take away our 2nd amendment rights and likely if Berkley is an any indication of things to come our 1st amendment rights as well.

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Matthew Carberry 382

2 days ago

In reply to:

The social logical causes are one thing; but the weapons they get out of the hands of the military are the proximate cause – and if you understand statistics, you’re probably aware that the gun…

— Clay McD

They were far lower -before- the imposition of gun control, which in Western nations only starts in any real way in the post-WWI period. There’s no evidence of statistically significant changes in the rates of homicide nor violent firearm crime from before imposition of increasing restrictions to after. Note you cannot look at rates merely from the date of imposition and give the law credit for a decline, you have to show it changed the existing rate trend from prior to passage.

England, for instance, has had effectively the same homicide rate since the mid-19th century. If firearm licensing (first imposed with any seriousness in 1920), registration, then the confiscations and eventual bans of the ’60s til now, had had any effect that rate should show some stat sig decreases. In fact, the only change has been an arguable recent increase in the overall violent crime rate the Home Office tries desperately to explain away.

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Christopher Crews

2 days ago

In reply to:

So how do you explain the shooting deaths in countries where private ownership of guns is largely banned … you know, France, England …. Is it the 2nd Amendment causing that or political and/or…

— Lela Markham

You’ve got a point there. No guns among the private citizenry in the UK. Maybe that’s why their getting beheaded in the streets of London, stabbed in the streets in London, and run over by moving trucks in London. Same can be said for France too, except firearms and bombs have been used effectively in France in mass murders. Actually there’s a growing segment of society in each country who are changing their opinions about firearm usage. The Swiss have firearms everywhere, and they’ve got a super-low crime rate. Your response was poorly thought out.

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Lela Markham

28 minutes ago

In reply to:

You know, legitimate statistical data actually has uses.. Why don’t you try again?

— Clay McD

300 million guns in America. About 1200 gun-related incidents a year. No guns allowed in France and England (not in law abiding hands anyway). Yes French people have been fish in a barrel for several terrorist attacks that used — unbelievably — guns.

Meanwhile here in the US it is estimated that Americans use guns to defend themselves from violence about a million times a year. Here in Fairbanks, a guy recently stopped an assault that seemed headed toward the death of the victim by brandishing his firearm. He didn’t shoot or kill anyone. The presence of the gun was enough to make the assailant stop sort of murder.

I suggest you statistical data sources a bit. At least then your presuppositions will be based on facts and not half-truths.

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Lela Markham

11 minutes ago

In reply to:

Lela, Gun control in most of Europe (as in US and the Euro colonies), is a modern invention, dating for the most part to post-WWI era when establishment fears of large numbers of armed and trained…

— Matthew Carberry 382

If denied guns, they use hands, feet, knives, and pipes.

I haven’t found a reliable statistic for it, but a friend who is from England says the murder rate has actually increased since the law-abiding have been disarmed. I believe her because her brother is a Birmingham cop and I think her source is probably good, but that’s a statistic that they don’t want out in the world.

The source of the guns doesn’t concern me that much. It’s the ludicrous notion that if you disarm the law-abiding, everybody will be safer. Clearly, guns are accessible and they will be used by those who want to do harm, but even if they are not accessible, hands, feet, knives, and pipes can kill people too, and as a small woman, I have zip defense against anyone who wants to harm me if I am disarmed.

Disarming people doesn’t make them safer. It makes them more compliant victims.

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blankenyblank

3 days ago

As of June 13, 2017:

27,778 gun incidents

6,865 gun deaths

13,484 gun injuries

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

Hi Blankenyblank: Question: from your stats, how many of those are by law-abiding citizens who are not wishing to commit suicide?…. Thanks. Oh- also: of the ones committed by criminals, how many would have been stopped by current gun laws?

.

It’s a little tougher to spout off gun statistics when you actually have to unpack and interpret them, isn’t it….

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

As of June 13, 2017: 27,778 gun incidents 6,865 gun deaths 13,484 gun injuries

— blankenyblank

Americans with guns stop about 700,000 crimes a year because they are armed and willing to use their weapons. The vast majority of those crimes are stopped without the defensive weapon ever being fired.

Only 21,000 gun-related deaths or injuries. Contrast that statistic to approximately 300 million guns in the United States. That’s a lot of guns that haven’t been used to harm anyone.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

As of June 13, 2017: 27,778 gun incidents 6,865 gun deaths 13,484 gun injuries

— blankenyblank

blankenyblank

40,200 died in fatal car accidents in 2016. That is clearly too many we need to ban cars. lol

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TerryL

2 days ago

Back in 1992, when my 16 yo daughter was killed in a car wreck, I started looking at the stats about highway deaths. After MADD was born, laws were changed and the ‘easy to target’ drunk drivers were criminalized to the point of ridiculousness. Two drinks – go to jail, have name in paper, lose license, pay huge fines — yet no one died, no property damages but they MIGHT kill! For years. current stats show: we got the big baddies long ago. Now, we jail secretaries who have two drinks then go home. The REAL culprits for the vast majority of deaths in the US has been SPEEDING DRIVERS. Ever see anyone tossed in jail for going 60 in 35 MPH zone? 45 in a school zone? Why not? Speed kills — more, more horrifically, and causes more property damages But DWI/DUI gets the funding, speeders get a ticket, maybe.Yet they maim and kill the most, and cause the most property damage. It’s not DWI, its speed. Its not guns, it’s policies that have gutted the middle class. People are MAD, not MADD. 😦

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Patrick Messmer

2 days ago

Actually every 15 minutes someone is killed by a DUI driver. I lost my brother to DUI. However we don’t ban booze and we don’t ban cars. We go after the behavior that is criminal. Anti gun folks can seem to grasp that. These same people that want to ban guns want light sentences for criminals and are upset when they get killed in the commission of their crimes by police and others.

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Shawn O’Donnell

3 days ago

Well, dare I say it, these guys are all about the 2nd Amendment and freedom to keep and bear arms at all cost. No restrictions, gun shows and all that, this is a symptom. I am sorry but I feel no empathy, where were these guys after Sandy Hook, in the NRA’s pocket that is where.

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Matthew Carberry 382

2 days ago

This guy was from Illinois, which requires FOID cards (state licenses with background checks) to purchase and possess, requires background checks for all purchases (private sales have to be approved by authorities), has an assault weapons ban, will seize FOID cards and firearms if a temporary restraining order is issued, has as tight or tighter “prohibited person” laws as the Feds and has a restrictive concealed carry law which was only recently enacted.

So, Mr. murder apologist, what additional restrictions do you propose?

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AKBruce68

3 days ago

I think this is fake news put out so the senate can pass a tax giveaway called healthcare while folks are distracted, “everybody” knows these mass shootings are staged for political reasons, it also is great training for EMS and police when the GOP goes home after taking healthcare away from 24 million people.

The new normal is that people are actually paying attention to how congress is attacking them and voters can tell the difference between “better and less expensive” and nothing.

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Beforefences

3 days ago

The fact that you actually believe this is a staged diversion from the health care vote indicates you are mentally ill. Homeland Security…….Please take note !!!!

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AKBruce68

3 days ago

I am quite sure this is a real event, however there are folks like Mike Flynn and that fellow that has a 4 hour show daily that believe that HC was part of a child porn site at a family Pizza Parlor and that Sandy Hook shooting didn’t really happen. Sorry to mislead you or anyone else.

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TerryL

2 days ago

I was utterly perplexed by your original comment! Like, .. HUH? Next time, Bruce, you might want to put in something like {sarcasm} after a sentence like “I think this is fake news …” LOLOL Whew! 🙂

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silent majority

3 days ago

another Bernie bot goes crazy….A quick search of Hodgkinson’s Facebook page reveals he appears to be an avid Bernie Sanders fan, with multiple images of and articles about the Democratic U.S. senator displayed throughout his Facebook profile. -AOL News

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

Oh, do you want to compare which party promotes and causes the most violence? No? I didn’t think so.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

Easy the democrats

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

You can’t fix stupid. And now I don’t even try.

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TerryL

2 days ago

In reply to:

another Bernie bot goes crazy….A quick search of Hodgkinson’s Facebook page reveals he appears to be an avid Bernie Sanders fan, with multiple images of and articles about the Democratic U.S….

— silent majority

Except, he wasn’t. His friends and neighbors say he was a quiet man, not given to ranting and raving, or much else but the ol’ 9 to 5, working for a living middle class guy. Maybe he finally flipped out when he lost a long time job, through no fault of his own, and found his entire previous life yanked out from under him. his American Dream punched out — by greedy lawmakers in far off DC. LOTS of people have had this happen, so to be surprised that he, and yes, there have been others last year and this, that flip out. It’s bound to happen! Why be surprised when civil disobedience does not work that violence is used? It’s worked in the past — everywhere. You can’t eat fancy words from legislators, and that’s all they’ve given the workers of Americans since trickle up came into play, and all those laws that passed in favor of the corporatocracy we now have. The workers have been stomped on since 1980, the American Dream is unobtainable for our children! People are justly angry.

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JetRx

3 days ago

A cheer was rumored to arise from the press gallery:

Another WIN-WIN for the MSM!

Another WIN-WIN for the MSM!

Another WIN-WIN for the MSM!

Another WIN-WIN for the MSM!

Their “anti-all-things-trump” rhetoric is beginning to pay dividends.

I’ll even wager a little giddiness among some of those virulent posters here.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

There you go again, hate-mongerer. I’ll even wager a little giddiness among some of the virulent posters here – especially including you – who are using this violent incident to push their political agenda.

You don’t care about the people who got shot, anymore than you cared about the children who have been massacred by gun toting right wing nuts, or those who’ve been killed by the police, or those killed in Trump’s illegal war(s), or people who will die for lack of medical care, etc.

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black_dude

3 days ago

This is not about guns. This is about our nation becoming divided as it was before we fought a civil war. I feel it where ever I go. People are mad and fed up on both sides. And I admit that I loathe Donald Trump, but I have to say that his rhetoric only adds to the division. I have people who have been my friends for 30 years; we have gotten into big arguments about Trump. I know it’s not all about Trump. But I have to ask: is Donald Trump worth this nation falling apart over?!

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

Capitol Hill police details and secret service personnel no doubt stopped what would have been a massacre– Isn’t it great that these elected officials had armed details to protect them? The same ones protecting Nancy Pelsoi, Michael Bloomburg, and state Democrats seeking to strip away gun rights for the rest of us law abiding citizens. Now is the time to oppose knee-jerk reactions by Congressional Democrats and those who would exploit this event to further their anti-2nd Amendment zealotry.

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muckamuck

3 days ago

Michael Bloomberg doesn’t get Capitol Hill police or Secret Service protection.

He’s a private citizen.

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

In reply to:

Capitol Hill police details and secret service personnel no doubt stopped what would have been a massacre– Isn’t it great that these elected officials had armed details to protect them? The same…

— Lars Bauer

I don’t recall the people you mentioned seeking to disarm the Capital Police and Secret Service. Can you please refresh me on when that occurred?

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

“I don’t recall the people you mentioned seeking to disarm the Capital Police and Secret Service.”

.

Why, me neither, commenter! Excellent point– If so against the 2nd Amendment, why don’t these Democrats disarm THEIR OWN personal security detail? Why don’t they ban firearms for the DC Capitol police and related security services? As it turns out, many politicians are going after these types of hypocrites:

.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/30/va-lawmaker-wants-to-defund-gov-mcauliffes-armed-guards-over-gun-dispute.html

.

If a politician wants to take away firearms for citizens, then their own armed guards can be taken away. Yes!

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Michael Bloomberg doesn’t get Capitol Hill police or Secret Service protection. He’s a private citizen.

— muckamuck

Oh Mucky– “Private citizen” Bloomberg is a billionaire who lobbies against 2nd Amendment rights for average Americans while maintaining his own, 24-hour personal armed security force.

Must be nice.

As Mayor, he was surrounded 24/7 by a swath of private and public armed security, and took his most loyal police security with him to the private sector when he left. It sure is easy for someone surrounded by armed security forces that Americas shouldn’t own firearms, isn’t it.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Capitol Hill police details and secret service personnel no doubt stopped what would have been a massacre– Isn’t it great that these elected officials had armed details to protect them? The same…

— Lars Bauer

HE’s Dead: BREAKING: Killed SHOOTER identified as Illinois resident James T. Hodgkinson

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/14/exclusive-congressional-baseball-shooter-dies-at-hospital/

.

From his Facebook page, Hodgkinson is shown as a Bernie Sanders supporter who hated Republicans and President Trump. He was also charged in April 2006 with battery and aiding damage to a car in Illinois.

.

A great day for law enforcement and the hope for more freedom to law-abiding gun owners in D.C. and Virginia.

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muckamuck

3 days ago

The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights.

He felt threatened and was standing his ground.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

In reply to:

Capitol Hill police details and secret service personnel no doubt stopped what would have been a massacre– Isn’t it great that these elected officials had armed details to protect them? The same…

— Lars Bauer

This is what happens when you have FAKE news with wall to wall propaganda endlessly demonizing Trump and republicans. This is the 2nd Bernie supporter to attack with deadly force in as many months…when wil the media call for Sanders to disavow his violent supporters.

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Clay McD

3 days ago

In reply to:

Capitol Hill police details and secret service personnel no doubt stopped what would have been a massacre– Isn’t it great that these elected officials had armed details to protect them? The same…

— Lars Bauer

You know – some people actually read the second amendment differently than you! Seems to me it used to be linked to a “well armed and regulated militia” .. but I guess the past 20 -30 years in gun violence shows that looser gun laws makes everyone safer –

oh wait a minute – we don’t really have good data on gun violence, do we? The centers for disease control aren’t permitted to collect that data!

I wonder why that is?

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George Mason II

3 days ago

In reply to:

The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights. He felt threatened and was standing his ground.

— muckamuck

Actually, he was expressing his left-wing hatred of the right. Exercising Second Amendment rights entails protecting one’s self. In this case this left-wing, violent extremist drove from Illinois specifically to kill as many Republican members of Congress as he could. Given the wholehearted acceptance of violent thought and actions against those on the right expressed daily in the media, and even on these ADN pages, this is not a particularly surprising event, merely the culmination of what those on the left have been demanding since November.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

In reply to:

You know – some people actually read the second amendment differently than you! Seems to me it used to be linked to a “well armed and regulated militia” .. but I guess the past 20 -30 years in gun…

— Clay McD

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Clay McD

3 days ago

In reply to:

Actually, he was expressing his left-wing hatred of the right. Exercising Second Amendment rights entails protecting one’s self. In this case this left-wing, violent extremist drove from Illinois…

— George Mason II

The ready availability of weapons to the angry is a major piece of this problem – and you can’t blame it on the left or the remaining elements of the responsible right-the shocking and still-vivid pictures of Gabby Gifford, the Charleston black Church massacre, and the Sandy Hook horrors still leap into my mind when this ” Right to bear arms” comes up… Not a “liberal” psychopath among them!

Of course weapons other than guns can be used! Bombs in Oklahoma and trucks/cars in London come to mind… But public access to such efficiently mass killing firearms IS a real problem that is larger than gun rights rhetoric.

Speaking for myself I’d rather not see us keep moving toward becoming another everymans’ gun/totin’ Afghanistan.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights. He felt threatened and was standing his ground.

— muckamuck

“The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights.”

.

Oh Mucky– you don’t have a 2A right to murder someone, and that’s not “standing your ground.” But I can definitely understand how a Bernie Sanders fanatic could “feel threatened” by watching a game of baseball- which is exactly how the term Leftist “snowflake” came about…

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

Michael Bloomberg doesn’t get Capitol Hill police or Secret Service protection. He’s a private citizen.

— muckamuck

Yes, he is a private citizen who pays for an armed security team to protect him while he advocates for the rest of us to be as helpless as those people on the London bridge were. That’s the point being made … that he’s fine with rendering his fellow citizens helpless so long as his security team gets to keep their guns. Typical rich man’s attitude.

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights. He felt threatened and was standing his ground.

— muckamuck

There is no natural right to kill someone who isn’t trying to kill you. The 2nd Amendment only acknowledges our natural right to defend ourselves against anyone who is trying to harm us. It doesn’t not magically make murder or attempted murder okay. It just acknowledges our right to defend ourselves from such aggression.

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

You know – some people actually read the second amendment differently than you! Seems to me it used to be linked to a “well armed and regulated militia” .. but I guess the past 20 -30 years in gun…

— Clay McD

Actually, when you study what the Founders said on this issue, the militia was all the armed men of the community and the men were meant to be armed because the Founder distrusted even the government they were setting up and figured someday, the militia would need to defend the people against the government. Go on! Read a book. Do some historical study. Even the most statist Founders held the opinion that being armed as a private citizen was a necessity for the protection of society. It wasn’t for hunting or home defense; it was because they assumed every government would eventually become tyrannical and require a citizen’s uprising. Some figured it might take a long time to get to that point while Thomas Jefferson thought it should happen every 20 years or so. But they pretty much all thought it would happen eventually.

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

The ready availability of weapons to the angry is a major piece of this problem – and you can’t blame it on the left or the remaining elements of the responsible right-the shocking and still-vivid…

— Clay McD

Well, when the terrorists with guns or knives attack the crowd we’re both in, Clay, I hope you’ll take them on hand to hand so I don’t have to kill anyone with my gun.

Which one of us do you think will be more effective at stopping said terrorists?

And, by the way, England … France … private ownership of guns is effectively outlawed, but notice the terrorists have guns … or knives. How many people died? Nine? It’s too bad some law-abiding citizen on that bridge didn’t have a gun. They might have saved a half-dozen lives.

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muckamuck

3 days ago

In reply to:

Yes, he is a private citizen who pays for an armed security team to protect him while he advocates for the rest of us to be as helpless as those people on the London bridge were. That’s the point…

— Lela Markham

First, security details are no guarantee of safety. Ronald Reagan had Secret Service protection and still got shot.

Second, Virginia is an open carry state. The citizens there have not been rendered helpless, by Michael Bloomberg or anyone else. Nevertheless it took the police to kill the gunman.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

HE’s Dead: BREAKING: Killed SHOOTER identified as Illinois resident James T. Hodgkinson http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/14/exclusive-congressional-baseball-shooter-dies-at-hospital/ . From his…

— Lars Bauer

Another Bernie Sanders supporter goes off the deep end. This is the new Left.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

You know – some people actually read the second amendment differently than you! Seems to me it used to be linked to a “well armed and regulated militia” .. but I guess the past 20 -30 years in gun…

— Clay McD

Every other amendment covers individuals why do you think the 2nd would cover the state. The supreme court disagreed with you by the way with the Heller decision. Actually looser gun laws do make us safer as the cities and counties with the strictest gun control laws have the worst crime rates. Chicago for instance.

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muckamuck

3 days ago

In reply to:

“The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights.” . Oh Mucky– you don’t have a 2A right to murder someone, and that’s not “standing your ground.” But I can definitely understand how…

— Lars Bauer

Oh piffle Larsie,

What the fun in owning a gun, if you can’t shoot people?

Wow
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muckamuck

3 days ago

In reply to:

Actually, when you study what the Founders said on this issue, the militia was all the armed men of the community and the men were meant to be armed because the Founder distrusted even the…

— Lela Markham

Hogwash about the the militia protecting people from the federal government. Your revisionist history is a fable. Read about the Whisky Rebellion and how “founding father” George Washington put it down with 13,000 troops:

“The Whiskey Rebellion (also known as the Whiskey Insurrection) was a tax protest in the United States beginning in 1791 during the presidency of George Washington.”

“Throughout Western Pennsylvania counties, protesters used violence and intimidation to prevent federal officials from collecting the tax.”

“Washington himself rode at the head of an army to suppress the insurgency, with 13,000 federal militiamen provided by the governors of Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion

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Dianne Woodruff

3 days ago

In reply to:

Well, when the terrorists with guns or knives attack the crowd we’re both in, Clay, I hope you’ll take them on hand to hand so I don’t have to kill anyone with my gun. Which one of us do you think…

— Lela Markham

Lela, it may or may not be a bad thing that “some law-abiding citizen on that bridge didn’t have a gun”. The unbounded optimism of those who think arming more people is the answer to every terrorist event isn’t warranted. In the right hands, guns are very effective. In the wrong ones, they can pose a greater danger. Not all armed citizens will carry safely, respond appropriately under stress, be extremely accurate, or instantly identified by police, no matter what they think before something happens. We can’t know how many might have been saved, how many bystanders killed by armed citizens trying to shoot the attackers, or how many bystanders and armed citizens killed by police shooting at armed citizens they mistook for terrorists.

It is good the terrorists had knives, not guns, or it would have been even worse. If it were easier for British citizens to obtain and carry guns, wouldn’t it be easier for terrorists to obtain and carry guns, too?

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“I don’t recall the people you mentioned seeking to disarm the Capital Police and Secret Service.” . Why, me neither, commenter! Excellent point– If so against the 2nd Amendment, why don’t these…

— Lars Bauer

If you want to talk hypocrites, Bauer, I’m up for that. Let’s start with Trump accusing the Dems of blocking his nominees…

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Oh Mucky– “Private citizen” Bloomberg is a billionaire who lobbies against 2nd Amendment rights for average Americans while maintaining his own, 24-hour personal armed security force. Must be…

— Lars Bauer

Yes, because your average soccer mom has the kind of power and notoriety that absolutely requires 24/7 private and public security.

Hyperbole much, Bucky?

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

This is what happens when you have FAKE news with wall to wall propaganda endlessly demonizing Trump and republicans. This is the 2nd Bernie supporter to attack with deadly force in as many…

— TJLYOM

Complain to your party and yourself – you guys invented fake news and Putrumpski invited it from Russia during his Campaign Hate-A-Thon and now, via his tweets.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Actually, he was expressing his left-wing hatred of the right. Exercising Second Amendment rights entails protecting one’s self. In this case this left-wing, violent extremist drove from Illinois…

— George Mason II

And you know this how? Please provide links and cites, FAKE news purveyor.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“The shooter was just exercising his Second Amendment rights.” . Oh Mucky– you don’t have a 2A right to murder someone, and that’s not “standing your ground.” But I can definitely understand how…

— Lars Bauer

Trump Bunnies get their widdle feewings hurted easily. That’s why they, SNIFF, just had to vote for the pathologically lying, mentally unstable psycho stinking up the White House. He represents them to a “T” – you know, all the red neck millionaires – and speaks to them in their language; the language of illiteracy, violence, religious nuts, gun nuts, anti-abortion nuts… well, all the nuts basically.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Another Bernie Sanders supporter goes off the deep end. This is the new Left.

— Patrick Messmer

Brought to you by the Wing Nut, Gun Loving, Pizza Gate, Nazi Loving, Muslim Hating Right. You should fully embrace this guy, since it appears he has crossed over to the dark side. He has passed the nut test and may now register as a Republican and NRA member.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Every other amendment covers individuals why do you think the 2nd would cover the state. The supreme court disagreed with you by the way with the Heller decision. Actually looser gun laws do make…

— Patrick Messmer

Name another city besides Chicago.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

The ready availability of weapons to the angry is a major piece of this problem – and you can’t blame it on the left or the remaining elements of the responsible right-the shocking and still-vivid…

— Clay McD

An armed society is a polite society. I would rather every one have a gun that only the criminals having them.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Lela, it may or may not be a bad thing that “some law-abiding citizen on that bridge didn’t have a gun”. The unbounded optimism of those who think arming more people is the answer to every…

— Dianne Woodruff

Despite the lefts wing medias refusal to report on stories with good guys with guns stopping mass shooters it does indeed happen and far more often than the left would like to admit.

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Clay McD

3 days ago

In reply to:

Capitol Hill police details and secret service personnel no doubt stopped what would have been a massacre– Isn’t it great that these elected officials had armed details to protect them? The same…

— Lars Bauer

I really think Afghanistan would be a great place for you to call home Lars – everybody can have all the guns of any kind I want as long as they can get them. A well-armed society is a polite society, right? Meantime, I heckuva lot of us would like to see significant restrictions on the kinds of weapons you can carry around in your car, or have around your house, or pull out when you’re drunk or angry..

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

In reply to:

Name another city besides Chicago.

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

New Orleans, Detroit, St Louis, and Baltimore. You know what else they have in common besides gun violence from criminals? Democrat leadership.

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George Mason II

2 days ago

In reply to:

And you know this how? Please provide links and cites, FAKE news purveyor.

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

Are you really this obtuse? If you can’t read simple newsprint you’re even more dumb than your username. But seriously, who expects any more from you, you’re quite literally the most moronic left wing nut on this site.

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TerryL

2 days ago

In reply to:

This is what happens when you have FAKE news with wall to wall propaganda endlessly demonizing Trump and republicans. This is the 2nd Bernie supporter to attack with deadly force in as many…

— TJLYOM

His FB page was not “filled” with rants — until very recently. He was just your average joe who finally connected the dots, and it made him flip his lid. Maybe he got tired of the ceaseless rhetoric from DC, that seems to always end with the workers being on the losing end of legislation. It’s been going on since 1980, remember “trickle down” that has since proven to only trickle UP? People have voiced their concerns in peaceful demonstrations for decades and it has gotten them nowhere. Our kids have it far worse then we did in the 60s and 70s. We had the American Dream, but today YM’s can barely pay rent much less save up for a home, get no benefits, 35 hr workweeks, etc. It’s sickening to see that money trickle up, up and up! When peaceful civil disobedience doesn’t work, then what’s the next step? Politicians best wake up, remember who they work for, listen to us, or face the music. History repeats itself!

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Strada

3 days ago

There is a commentator on these pages using several names like “Trump is a Failure” or “Dump Trump” spreading hate speech every day. It is hard to believe ADN allows him/her to continue with his/her hate speech. He/she might as well have held the gun this morning. It is truly disgusting.

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LNG & Weed is all we Need Walker

3 days ago

Strada you are so right

I wonder when we will see it on the front page of the paper.

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Foster McTeague

3 days ago

In reply to:

There is a commentator on these pages using several names like “Trump is a Failure” or “Dump Trump” spreading hate speech every day. It is hard to believe ADN allows him/her to continue with…

— Strada

I would suggest against making ridiculous statements like equating speech to the shooting which occurred. But then again knowing you it’d probably be a waste of time to recommend against being so foolish.

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Ashton Kutcher

3 days ago

In reply to:

There is a commentator on these pages using several names like “Trump is a Failure” or “Dump Trump” spreading hate speech every day. It is hard to believe ADN allows him/her to continue with…

— Strada

“He/she might as well have held the gun this morning. It is truly disgusting.”

Whatever, broski, I find most of your comments disgusting.

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Brock O’Bama

3 days ago

Is it time now to do something?

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

Yes it is more training for law abiding citizens and programs to get as many good people armed as possible to protect against left wing terrorists.

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Clay McD

3 days ago

so, still not into any gun control or assault weapon controls guys? Even when people with personal security details can’t be safe?

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

100 shots? Wow. Musta had a high capacity magazine to pull that off.

I wonder how much the NRA has donated to Scalise and Mo Williams and the rest of the congressional folks on the field. Glad no one was killed and this only serves as a wakeup.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

“100 shots? Wow. Musta had a high capacity magazine to pull that off.”

.

…Or reloaded 10 times. I guess that proves that even if “high-capacity” (wherever that means) was used, it has no correlation to the amount of life lost. Way to “shoot” the argument against “high capacity”in foot.

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

Don’t play ignorant. If a gunman wants to kill lots of people in a crowd before he’s neutralized, the ability to keep pulling the trigger rather than to pause to pull out and replace cartridges 10 times is a big advantage. And carrying 10 cartridges around would be far more noticeable. Your argument is tortured and “proves’ nothing and you know it.

So what’s a “high capacity cartridge”? The NRA states that it is one that holds more rounds than is considered “average”. Fair enough. Glock states that the standard cartridge for their guns holds between 12 and 17 rounds. So if you had a magazine in a Glock that held 50+ rounds that would reasonably be called “high capacity”.

I guess we’ll find out soon enough what capacity magazine he was carrying. Want to take bets?

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Richard Corbeil

3 days ago

In reply to:

so, still not into any gun control or assault weapon controls guys? Even when people with personal security details can’t be safe?

— Clay McD

Actually it is because people with personal security can’t be safe that I want to have my ability to defend myself. Until you can stop bad people from having guns my opinion won’t change.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

so, still not into any gun control or assault weapon controls guys? Even when people with personal security details can’t be safe?

— Clay McD

Um, “gun control” is the same as “assault weapon control–” and people with security details ARE safe– as evidenced by their security guards killing the bad guy with a gun while protecting their employer from death- with a gun. So yeah: “still not into it.”

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Richard Corbeil

3 days ago

In reply to:

Don’t play ignorant. If a gunman wants to kill lots of people in a crowd before he’s neutralized, the ability to keep pulling the trigger rather than to pause to pull out and replace cartridges 10…

— Another Commenter for Hire

Right, or use a bomb, or poison gas, or fire, or…………… Guns aren’t the problem!

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Clayton Mcdowall

3 days ago

In reply to:

Actually it is because people with personal security can’t be safe that I want to have my ability to defend myself. Until you can stop bad people from having guns my opinion won’t change.

— Richard Corbeil

Afghanistan is Second Amendment Heaven!! Everyone believes – and behaves- the way you believe.. You and your family might want to give it a try for a while. They are definitely an individually well-armed society, and kids live daily with a strong “duck-and-cover” or “kill-or-be-killed” approach to community..

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Don’t play ignorant. If a gunman wants to kill lots of people in a crowd before he’s neutralized, the ability to keep pulling the trigger rather than to pause to pull out and replace cartridges 10…

— Another Commenter for Hire

“If a gunman wants to kill lots of people….the ability to keep pulling the trigger rather than to pause to pull out and replace cartridges 10 times is a big advantage.”

.

….except, you know….in this case, where he expended 60 rounds and killed……no one..

.

“So what’s a “high capacity cartridge?””

no, genius: what you’re trying to say is “high capacity magazine.” (sigh)

…”Glock states that the standard cartridge….”

(sigh) no- still “magazine,” genius– not “cartridge.”

.

If you’ve never actually seen a real firearm, the absolute least you could do is use the proper terminology when talking about the subject.

.

And way to prove that the term “standard” is subjective, based on the make/model/group you talk to– thanks.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

In reply to:

so, still not into any gun control or assault weapon controls guys? Even when people with personal security details can’t be safe?

— Clay McD

Yes I am now…registered Democrats and other leftists should be banned from owning firearms due to admission of mental health issues in the form of party affiliation.

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

In reply to:

“If a gunman wants to kill lots of people….the ability to keep pulling the trigger rather than to pause to pull out and replace cartridges 10 times is a big advantage.” . ….except, you…

— Lars Bauer

Right. Excuse me, sonny. I was typing fast and used the wrong term. Thank you for pointing that out.

Now, about the basic point I made that you failed to refute… The fact that he failed to kill anyone is due to his poor shooting ability. Swapping magazines would have done nothing to improve his competence.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

“I was typing fast and used the wrong term” — that would explain spelling errors- not the deliberate use of a wrong term. Sorry, not letting you off. Just admit you need more education on firearms; it’s ok.

.

“The fact that he failed to kill anyone is due to his poor shooting ability.” — got it: so just because you have a “high capacity” magazine does not at all mean you “have a big advantage,” as you originally claimed– this is a clear example of that.

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Joe The Plumber

3 days ago

In reply to:

Right, or use a bomb, or poison gas, or fire, or…………… Guns aren’t the problem!

— Richard Corbeil

… or driving trucks into crowds

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Lela Markham

3 days ago

In reply to:

Don’t play ignorant. If a gunman wants to kill lots of people in a crowd before he’s neutralized, the ability to keep pulling the trigger rather than to pause to pull out and replace cartridges 10…

— Another Commenter for Hire

You do know that a cartridge is a bullet, right? It would be slow going to replace cartridges individually. Although replacing a 14-cartridge magazine a few times would definitely go much easier. Carrying 10 cartridges (bullets) would hardly be noticeable. Carrying 10 magazines would definitely make a bulge in your jacket.

Just pointing out that you have NO understanding of the topic you’re pontificating on, so maybe you should consider educating yourself before you lecture those who do know something about the topic as if they were idiots and you were the wise one.

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Frank Colitivito 887

3 days ago

“You do know that a cartridge is a bullet, right? “

Uh, actually, no it is not. A cartridge contains a bullet, a primer, a casing, and powder.

“you should consider educating yourself before you lecture those who do know something about the topic as if they were idiots and you were the wise one.”

So, where does that leave you?

LOL….

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

In reply to:

“I was typing fast and used the wrong term” — that would explain spelling errors- not the deliberate use of a wrong term. Sorry, not letting you off. Just admit you need more education on…

— Lars Bauer

Well, no. If your goal is to kill people, a 50 cal will provide you an enormous advantage over a BB gun. I trust you will agree with that. But if you can’t hit the target, it gives you no advantage at all.

They type of weapon and your ability to effectively use it are two different issues, but nice attempt at conflation.

By the way, you seem very angry, Lars. Why is that?

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“100 shots? Wow. Musta had a high capacity magazine to pull that off.” . …Or reloaded 10 times. I guess that proves that even if “high-capacity” (wherever that means) was used, it has no…

— Lars Bauer

Are you getting off on all the gun talk, Bauer? If yes, that may indicate you have a problem. The good news is that treatment is available for those who cannot quit fantasizing about holding a smoking gun (rifle, etc.) in their overly-excited, hot little hands. Call 1-800-Love-Me-Some-Purty-Little-Shooters and ask for Lance.

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Michael Albertson

3 days ago

In reply to:

“I was typing fast and used the wrong term” — that would explain spelling errors- not the deliberate use of a wrong term. Sorry, not letting you off. Just admit you need more education on…

— Lars Bauer

Ah Lars, how do you climb so high to get onto of your soapbox?

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Um, “gun control” is the same as “assault weapon control–” and people with security details ARE safe– as evidenced by their security guards killing the bad guy with a gun while protecting their…

— Lars Bauer

Didn’t say security details, Trump Bunny. Said with “personal security” as in a personal weapon.

You can’t fix stupid, deliberate or not.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Right, or use a bomb, or poison gas, or fire, or…………… Guns aren’t the problem!

— Richard Corbeil

Your right; it’s the people that support them – like that Congressman, for example, that are the problem. Thanks for clearing that up Cornhell.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Yes I am now…registered Democrats and other leftists should be banned from owning firearms due to admission of mental health issues in the form of party affiliation.

— TJLYOM

Just as right wing nuts should be barred from Medicare, Social Security, Healthcare, any kind of government assistance, police/military protection, use of infrastructure, use of any machine that is subject to regulations, laws, and so on. They should be on their own, completely free of government “interference,” including any say in what others do or don’t do.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“I was typing fast and used the wrong term” — that would explain spelling errors- not the deliberate use of a wrong term. Sorry, not letting you off. Just admit you need more education on…

— Lars Bauer

I’m just gonna say my logic teacher would give you a zero..

it’s obvious that, generally speaking, a competent shooter with a gun that has the ability to rapidly shoot multiple rounds gives that shooter the advantage over anyone of similar skill not similarly armed.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Are you getting off on all the gun talk, Bauer? If yes, that may indicate you have a problem. The good news is that treatment is available for those who cannot quit fantasizing about holding a…

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

Nice rebuttal: I eat anti-2nd Amendment zealots for lunch, and love talking about this topic, as I actually use and carry firearms. Come back any time if you’re interested in rebutting the fact that “high capacity” (whatever that means) plays no part in how dangerous a gun is, as shown by this Bernie fanatic firing 100 rounds and killing….no one.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

I’m just gonna say my logic teacher would give you a zero.. it’s obvious that, generally speaking, a competent shooter with a gun that has the ability to rapidly shoot multiple rounds gives that…

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

You have a “logic teacher?” Please tell us more about this “logic teacher….” ….is he, like, Mr. Spock, or something? LOL!

.

“….with a gun that has the ability to rapidly shoot multiple rounds” congrats, Mr. Logic– you just described EVERY single semi-automatic firearm on the market today. LOL. So since this was clearly NOT “a competent shooter,” then having such a firearm was of NO advantage– got it.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Ah Lars, how do you climb so high to get onto of your soapbox?

— Michael Albertson

Using the right terms to properly identify an inalienable right is tantamount to a “soapbox,” Michael? You’re probably right– after all, it’s only laws these zealots are trying to pass, right? I mean, semantics-shemantics….SMH:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/01/21/anti-gun-senator-is-being-mocked-relentlessly-after-he-warned-of-30-caliber-clip-in-embarrassing-video/

.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2013/07/9-dumbest-gun-control-quotes-politicians-and-celebrities#page-6

.

Here’s wishing you more substantial experience with such matters in the future.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Well, no. If your goal is to kill people, a 50 cal will provide you an enormous advantage over a BB gun. I trust you will agree with that. But if you can’t hit the target, it gives you no…

— Another Commenter for Hire

Great post– thank you for articulating your continual and utter ignorance of firearms (hint: a bb gun isn’t a firearm)…..

Right- If a Bernie fan couldn’t kill a single person from firing 100 rounds, I would probably also say that “They type of weapon and your ability to effectively use it are two different issues”[sic] . LOL

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Lela Markham

3 minutes ago

In reply to:

“You do know that a cartridge is a bullet, right? ” Uh, actually, no it is not. A cartridge contains a bullet, a primer, a casing, and powder. “you should consider educating yourself before you…

— Frank Colitivito 887

Which most people just call a bullet. Go back and read the comment I was responding to. The commenter was clearly talking about magazines and didn’t have a clue that he was spouting off from a lack of knowledge.Imprecision of language is one thing … complete lack of knowledge of a topic you’re lecturing knowledgeable people on is quite another.

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LiLSuzQ32

3 days ago

In 2016, Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) said in a tweet:

“Why do we have a second amendment? It’s not to shoot deer. It’s to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical.”

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Tim Johnson 48

3 days ago

I sure hope that this man has rethought what he said. I’m having some venison and I hope he’s having crow. So easy to just type some stuff – and so hard to take it back.

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Kiki Schueler

3 days ago

More violent hate from the left? No WAY!

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

More hypocritical, snarky comments from the hateful, gun toting right? No WAY!

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M Graham

2 days ago

Another group of dems trying to change the conversation. The hate being spewed from Dems has created so much discourse. the bullying on the part of the Dems is unbelievable. You bullied Republicans when Obama was in office and now they are bullying Americans who voted for Trump. Again that gun did not plan to kill republican lawmakers. A gun is not a verb. The hate spewed by Dems created a guy who took what is being said by your media and attempted to kill Republicans. This guy is at the foot of all hating Democrats. Not a Gun. Different points of view should not be reason to create an enemy and then decided to kill. Think about it Dems?

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Lynda Hadley

2 days ago

M Graham: Unfortunately, it may not seem as though it is…but both political parties are at fault for demonizing each other.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

History may regard this as a Fort Sumter moment…

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

May I give you a bit of personal advice about your personal hygiene….

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Lynn Willis

3 days ago

Civil unrest and lack of faith in our institutions is exactly what the Russians want to happen. Now watch for them to pour gasoline on the fire……….

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

Did you ever think they’re using the media and Democratic Party for exactly that?

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Lynn Willis

3 days ago

They will use whatever means and whatever platform to foment division and unrest. When you mention only the Democrat Party you play into their hand. Glad to see President Trump sound “presidential” in his comments.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

The reason I mention the media and democrats is that the left wing media has NEVER been so negative in coverage of anything…they have justified violence in the feeble minded. Trump is not perfect but he is not what the Fake News says he is.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

What a load. The left is merely reporting what is happening under Trump. It isn’t rocket science: It’s negative, because what he’s doing is negative. Trump himself is negative.

The left is tired of the right’s bull#%*t.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Did you ever think they’re using the media and Democratic Party for exactly that?

— TJLYOM

Did you ever think they’re using the the right wing media and the Republican Party for exactly that?

Yes, because it’s true. The left are thinkers.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

In reply to:

What a load. The left is merely reporting what is happening under Trump. It isn’t rocket science: It’s negative, because what he’s doing is negative. Trump himself is negative. The left is…

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

What’s “happening?” 6 million new jobs, renewed US stature in the world, rollback of countless economy killing regulations and a 16% growth in the stock market…I know Rachel Maddow doesn’t report it but the truth is out there.

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

In reply to:

Did you ever think they’re using the the right wing media and the Republican Party for exactly that? Yes, because it’s true. The left are thinkers.

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

Nope because that’s the false story the left has pushed for months without a scrap of evidence. Hillary and Podesta had lots of shady connections to Russia though. Makes one wonder if the Russia conspiracy theory was concocted by Podesta as a red herring to throw off the scent on their own shady dealings

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splark

3 days ago

Nope, haven’t forgotten about the Russians yet.

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Clay McD

3 days ago

If I didn’t prefer living in a country where you were safe to let kids ride their tricycles on the sidewalk, or to walk your dog on a beautiful afternoon, or to gather for picnics or to play baseball, I would probably agree with those – may I call them “gun nuts?” -who tell us that if only we were all armed all the time then we would have a much safer and far more pleasant country …

They may have a point. Think of the tax money we could save?! If we are all alarme they may have a point. Think of the tax money we could save?! If we are all armed, we could do away with police departments! And we could do away with schools! We already have police in the schools to protect kids from other kids or adults with guns – Why not just keep our kids safe & do away with schools altogether – educate them all at home, protected by their parents? I did read yesterday a father accidentally killed his young daughter by pointing a gun at her, but that’s a rare event!

Second amendment rocks!

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Richard Corbeil

3 days ago

More of the usual myopic distorted mis-information from the mind of a liberal. The reality is –http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php guns don’t rank in the top 10 causes of death in this nation. School shooting don’t rank in the top 1000. Millions of people die in this nation every year but only a handful in school shootings, yet the FBI says that a quarter million crimes are thwarted by citizens with guns every year. So ya, you are correct, The 2nd Amendment ROCKS!

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

If I didn’t prefer living in a country where you were safe to let kids ride their tricycles on the sidewalk, or to walk your dog on a beautiful afternoon, or to gather for picnics or to play…

— Clay McD

“- may I call them “gun nuts?”

.

You can, but you’d look foolish. The scenarios you describe: walking the dog, playing with children, picnics: I hate to break it to you, but these are activities already being enjoyed by citizens carrying guns. Whoops. It’s also foolish to say that because we carry and use firearms, there is no need for police– how silly. I think that may have something to do with your faulty belief that gun owners think of themselves as law enforcement, which is, of course, not true. You also bring up home schooling, which has exploded in the last 10 years in popularity- for a number of reasons– perhaps you could connect that to the freedom to use firearms, as that was missed by many, including myself.

.

Yes- the 2nd Amendment DOES rock!

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Clayton Mcdowall

3 days ago

In reply to:

More of the usual myopic distorted mis-information from the mind of a liberal. The reality is – http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php guns don’t rank in the top 10 causes of death in…

— Richard Corbeil

What the hell is a “liberal” or “conservative” to you? Do you really think its all about owning a gun, or hunting? As for “only a handful” die in school shootings – you think a handful is acceptable now in America? Your “liberal and conservative “nonsense on this issue is just that – nonsense! I was shooting and hunting from probably before you were born! Maybe with a little help you can learn to stick to the subject and not toss out labels you can’t support – (tho I confess I have my doubts).

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Beforefences

3 days ago

You are more likely to die in a car accident. It’s just a random disgruntled old guy. Nothing to see here. Move along. Just good honest politicians playing baseball.

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Tim Johnson 48

3 days ago

I know people like this guy. Right wing and Left wing. Both sides are driven by those who seek to divide us by our political positions. Those in the media (and that includes both the Rightist Talk Media and the Leftist Late Night – so called – comedians) drive this divide for their own profit. Our political divisions should give us strength – should give us the same alloy that puts the alloyed steel in our constitution. But the opportunists have blinded us from the fundamentals that should inform us: The Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule as expressed by our Saviour many times in both the Old and the New Testament. I’m not a fan of baseball. When I played it, I usually struck out; but when I did – the outfielders were out in the tall grass trying to find the ball. I ask anyone who reads this to put your love of our country into the tall grass and walk away from this political swamp. Yeah, I know – lot of metaphors here. Play ball in the prairies where folks look out for each other.

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💫Trumpism is a Huge Failure

3 days ago

Republicans are actively trying to take your healthcare away in order to give money to billionaires.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

Flagged, made-up poster hater. Wrong topic, false narrative, and unfounded lies. Try again, next time using a real name and facts to back up your hate.

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💥Τrumpism is a Huge Failure

3 days ago

< this comment did not meet civility standards >

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©Dump Trump™

3 days ago

Happy to flag all comments by this impostor.

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Donald Smith

3 days ago

In reply to:

Republicans are actively trying to take your healthcare away in order to give money to billionaires.

— 💫Trumpism is a Huge Failure

You are part of the problem that fuels tragedies as happened today. Your exaggerated inaccurate distortion of facts and inflammatory rhetoric is despicable. And that goes for those opponents on the other side as well using the same tactics. Shame on you.

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The right wing is full of sad snowflakes

3 days ago

Republicans are actively trying to take your healthcare away so they can give tax breaks to billionaires.

Facts make you so very insecure that you become irrational and delusional.

No shame in telling the truth, snowflake, it’s obvious you haven’t heard much of it.

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The right wing is full of sad snowflakes

3 days ago

In reply to:

< this comment did not meet civility standards >

— 💥Τrumpism is a Huge Failure

Flagged as it should be.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

You are part of the problem that fuels tragedies as happened today. Your exaggerated inaccurate distortion of facts and inflammatory rhetoric is despicable. And that goes for those opponents on the…

— Donald Smith

No, you are a part of the problem. The state made by TIAHF is correct. Wingers are always trying to gaslight those who rightly question them.

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Pete Buist

3 days ago

This simply must be Fake News. Everyone knows that ordinary citizens cannot carry or discharge firearms in urban areas around Washington DC. And any Democrat knows that when you have “strict gun control” criminals cannot possibly be armed. Criminals DO obey all the laws, right?

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

You make a good point. Criminals will break every law. So why have any laws? They’re going to murder and rape and steal anyway.

Just arm everyone and let the citizenry take over policing our country.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

“So why have any laws? They’re going to murder and rape and steal anyway.”

.

Because every time an asinine gun law is passed, it further erodes away gun rights for law-abiding citizens. That’s why your comparison to murder laws is stupid: murder laws aren’t negative rights; you never had the right to murder someone in the first place- you DO have the right to own and use firearms in the first place. If you’re still having trouble seeing the difference, let me know and I’ll further clarify that for you.

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Joe The Plumber

3 days ago

In reply to:

You make a good point. Criminals will break every law. So why have any laws? They’re going to murder and rape and steal anyway. Just arm everyone and let the citizenry take over policing our…

— Another Commenter for Hire

Good point. People need to take a more active role defending themselves, not wait for the government to do it for them.

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Clay McD

3 days ago

It sounds to me like you are ready to enlist! Or to emigrate to Afghanistan! No there’s a country that lives up to your guiding principles – everyone can be armed with anything they want all the time! And they have to be – because since everyone is armed and no country can afford police were soldiers enough to defend the well armed society, it’s the only way to protect yourself! If you could learn the language, you’d be pretty happy there!

Me? I prefer a safe and peaceful neighborhood bolstered by a far less gun-totin’ approach to community. Like the USA and alaska used to be. Guns for hunting is one thing. Guns as penis substitutes something else.

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Another Commenter for Hire

3 days ago

In reply to:

“So why have any laws? They’re going to murder and rape and steal anyway.” . Because every time an asinine gun law is passed, it further erodes away gun rights for law-abiding citizens. That’s why…

— Lars Bauer

Perhaps. But the OC’s comment was: “when you have “strict gun control” criminals cannot possibly be armed. Criminals DO obey all the laws, right?”

Thus I was responding to the OC’s point. Please resist your urge to shift topics.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

It sounds to me like you are ready to enlist! Or to emigrate to Afghanistan! No there’s a country that lives up to your guiding principles – everyone can be armed with anything they want all the…

— Clay McD

Clay- it sounds like you have absolutely no exposure or experience with firearms, firearms owners, the 2nd Amendment, hunting, the Constitution, or our country’s history. But please: don’t let little things like that get in the way of posting.

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Clayton Mcdowall

3 days ago

.. wrong… probably began hunting and shooting with my father before you were born… but that’s not the public policy point here, is it? Or is that the best you’ve got?

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

Clay- so your dad owned some firearms back in the day, and you went along for the ride, so years later you could claim to have had “experience” with firearms– got it.

.

If your honest goal is “public policy,” then you need to at least use the right terms, about the right people, and understand firearms owners. You clearly don’t, but I’d love for you to start.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

Perhaps. But the OC’s comment was: “when you have “strict gun control” criminals cannot possibly be armed. Criminals DO obey all the laws, right?” Thus I was responding to the OC’s point. Please…

— Another Commenter for Hire

And I answered your question– you’re welcome. Again: if you have trouble seeing the difference or have a rebuttal– let me know.

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Michael Albertson

3 days ago

In reply to:

“So why have any laws? They’re going to murder and rape and steal anyway.” . Because every time an asinine gun law is passed, it further erodes away gun rights for law-abiding citizens. That’s why…

— Lars Bauer

Lars, I do not think you know the difference between a “asinine gun law” and “gun rights”. Guns do not have “rights” in the US, although surprisingly corporations do. Without universal background checks how can you say anyone is a “law-abiding citizen”? If a “law-abiding citizen” commits a crime, any crime, are they no longer a “law-abiding citizen” and subject to forfeiture of firearms? No, not in this country.

The comparison to murder and law isn’t stupid, its logical. What about the “right” of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” for all?

I own a few firearms. A couple of hunting rifles and my son has an older rifle he inherited from his grandfather. A pistol for bear protection. That’t it. No shotguns, no high capacity magazines, no reloading equipment, grenades or rocket launchers. Oh, and a few pocket and hunting knives, although we do not actually use the “hunting knives” for hunting.

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

“I do not think you know the difference between a “asinine gun law” and “gun rights”.”

.

I have an inalienable right to own and use firearms– laws which curtail and marginalize that inalienable right are “asinine.” Glad I could clarify that for you.

.

“Without universal background checks how can you say anyone is a “law-abiding citizen.”

* give me the name of a gun dealer that doesn’t have to complete a background check.

* So a policeman is fully within their right to pull you over and search your car? After all- how could he know you weren’t a criminal? You miss the point, completely.

.

* Your decision to own the type and amounts of firearms you do is up to you– just like the types I own are up to me– thanks for proving freedom.

* The 2A has nothing to do with “grenades and rocket launchers,” and no one thinks so.

* “high capacity” is a made-up, subjective term that means nothing, except by those wishing to pass asinine gun laws (see above for definition of ‘asinine.’)

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Michael Albertson

3 days ago

Lars, you unfortunately continue to miss the target of my conversation.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

This simply must be Fake News. Everyone knows that ordinary citizens cannot carry or discharge firearms in urban areas around Washington DC. And any Democrat knows that when you have “strict gun…

— Pete Buist

Yes, in the same way as Republicans tell the truth. Just ask “I do not recall” Sessions.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“So why have any laws? They’re going to murder and rape and steal anyway.” . Because every time an asinine gun law is passed, it further erodes away gun rights for law-abiding citizens. That’s why…

— Lars Bauer

Try to keep up Boomer. Instead of responding to ACFH’s post, you’re ranting to yourself.

You know, the usual.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“I do not think you know the difference between a “asinine gun law” and “gun rights”.” . I have an inalienable right to own and use firearms– laws which curtail and marginalize that inalienable…

— Lars Bauer

“So a policeman is fully within their right to pull you over and search your car? After all- how could he know you weren’t a criminal?”

I don’t know Boomer, how could he know? And gee, are you conflating gun sellers with policemen?

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George Mason II

3 days ago

It was them dang Russians.

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AKBruce68

3 days ago

Gunman has those NRA shooter glasses, logo on his shirt is ASHI, either First Aid or a Home inspection organization.

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HereIam

3 days ago

The goofy want to blame this on gun control instead of the loony left in this country. From the violence on Trump Supporters in Portland to the shooting in Virginia that’s what the left wants, civil war.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

No, it’s what the gun-loving, hateful right wants. You can’t demonize and declare war on immigrants and others, erase the safety net, threaten Medicare, Medicaid. And social security, destroy regulations put in place to protect people, generally push people to the limit and travel around the world threatening nations with war and expect that all is going to be peachy keen.

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

You mean take away the free loaders free stuff that we pay for. Cry me a river

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Patrick Messmer

3 days ago

In reply to:

No, it’s what the gun-loving, hateful right wants. You can’t demonize and declare war on immigrants and others, erase the safety net, threaten Medicare, Medicaid. And social security, destroy…

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

So your justifying this left wing terrorist actions?

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Ashton Kutcher

3 days ago

In reply to:

The goofy want to blame this on gun control instead of the loony left in this country. From the violence on Trump Supporters in Portland to the shooting in Virginia that’s what the left wants…

— HereIam

So you’re abandoning the “snowflakes” theory?

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

The goofy want to blame this on gun control instead of the loony left in this country. From the violence on Trump Supporters in Portland to the shooting in Virginia that’s what the left wants…

— HereIam

“I can tell you one prominent politician who has drastically degraded the quality of political discourse in this country and has repeatedly advocated violence from the microphone — Donald Trump. Over and over again, throughout his campaign, Trump spoke of how he yearned for the day where protesters were carried out on stretchers and how he’d personally pay for the legal costs his supporters incurred for being violent with protesters. That wasn’t Hillary Clinton. That wasn’t Bernie Sanders. That was Donald Trump. To this very day, he has supporters in legal trouble for the violence he encouraged at his rallies.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-don-blame-sanders-congressional-baseball-shooting-article-1.3247576

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

So your justifying this left wing terrorist actions?

— Patrick Messmer

It wasn’t a left wing terrorist action, drama queen. It was one extremely dusturbed individual with a gun he should never have been allowed to get his hands on. Complain to your legislator and the NRA.

And what’s the point of your comment: “You mean take away the free loaders free stuff that we pay for. Cry me a river.” That’s inflammatory.

My brother used to go out when he was in a bad mood, drink, and start fights. He picked on the wrong dude one night and got the s#%* beat out of him. Mr brother saw the light and changed his ways. He told me there’s always someone bigger and badder than you. My observation of bullies is that they only stop when someone finally gets tired of their crap. When you bully someone – or a group – there may be consequences; you pick on the wrong one and pay the price. It’s natural law. I don’t agree or disagree with it; it just is.

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Strada

3 days ago

The gunman, James Hodgkinson, was a Bernie Sanders campaign worker and anti-Trump activist. Is this the America the Democrats want?

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George Mason II

3 days ago

Yes, it is the American the Democrats want. It’s clear from both their words and their actions. Be it violent riots to prevent conservative speakers from speaking, mock executions of President Trump, or the constant demands for conservatives to give up their arms, the left is bound and determined to quash anything with which they disagree, in any manner required.

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black_dude

3 days ago

In reply to:

The gunman, James Hodgkinson, was a Bernie Sanders campaign worker and anti-Trump activist. Is this the America the Democrats want?

— Strada

Strada:

This is not the America I want; and yes, if we talked, you’d call me a stinking liberal. But I’m a patriot. My life and the lives of my grandfather, father, brother, and son prove that we love this country and served it. Please acknowledge that this kind of division was not evident until Donald Trump was elected president? I know it’s not all his fault. Obviously, his rhetoric resonated with lots of Americans. But I can honestly say that what I hear most times when Trump speaks is hate and fear. Donald Trump is a very, very flawed man. He is not Abraham Lincoln by a very, very long way. We should not allow this man to lead our nation into a civil war!

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Lynda Hadley

3 days ago

In reply to:

The gunman, James Hodgkinson, was a Bernie Sanders campaign worker and anti-Trump activist. Is this the America the Democrats want?

— Strada

Strada: The country is divided, and both sides have issues with folks attacking with guns, knives, or vicious words.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

The gunman, James Hodgkinson, was a Bernie Sanders campaign worker and anti-Trump activist. Is this the America the Democrats want?

— Strada

Is this what the America right wing nut, gun toting, Trump lovers want? Where was the concern when nazi Trump lovers were defacing schools, burning down mosques and insulting the parents of children killed in mass shootings?

If you want to point fingers, point them at yourself.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Yes, it is the American the Democrats want. It’s clear from both their words and their actions. Be it violent riots to prevent conservative speakers from speaking, mock executions of President…

— George Mason II

Oh, BS. If any group is a danger to America, its right wing nuts and the idiot they voted into the Oval Office. Seems to me Trump and his corrupt minions have pushed this nation to the breaking point. He’s a traitor, and while I do not approve of violence in any way, shape or form, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that this happened. Where were you when Gabby Gifford was shot? What has been your reaction when children have been mass murdered by gun nut members if the NRA? How many times have you defended the NRA? Promoted zero gun control, even in the case of mentally unstable people? How many guns do you own? How many animals have you killed?

As I’ve always said, violence begets violence. We have one of the most divisive, most hate-mongering, violent Presidents ever in the White House.

Incidents of hate crime went up and are increasing because of Trump. If any group is responsible, it’s the right. Only a fool wouldn’t have seen this coming.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Yes, it is the American the Democrats want. It’s clear from both their words and their actions. Be it violent riots to prevent conservative speakers from speaking, mock executions of President…

— George Mason II

Yes, it is the America the Republicans want. It’s clear from both their words and their actions Be it violent riots to prevent liberal/black/Muslim/immigrant/women speakers from speaking, mock executions and threats to kill President Obama, hateful rhetoric directed to his family or the right’s constant demands for liberals to give up their Constitutional rights, the right is bound and determined to quash anything with which they disagree, in any manner they wish to us, such as blocking all of President Obamas legislation for 8 years, and blocking his Supreme Court nominee and colluding with America’s enemies to steal its most important election.

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Tokdog

3 days ago

CNN hosts holding bloody severed Trump heads. Public plays in New York displaying the mob assignation of President Trump. The son of Vice President candidate Kane arrested during a violent anti Trump protest. Universities eliminating free speech except from the left. Now a left wing Bernie Sanders supporter who has vocally expressed his hatred from Trump and republicans shoots republican representatives. The left’s hate and intolerance fueled this. What’s next?

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Raven33_2

3 days ago

Wow, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the people who make those same comments here in ADN. I know of one commentor that calls for a revolution in virtually every one of his/her posts.

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Tokdog

3 days ago

Since you don’t give examples, I can’t comment on your feelings, but even if true, the clear difference is that those calling for violence against Republicans and the President are in the national media and thus influence those who act out on their inclinations. When the left defends the depiction of the President being assassinated, it’s obvious they are encouraging this type of violence.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

CNN hosts holding bloody severed Trump heads. Public plays in New York displaying the mob assignation of President Trump. The son of Vice President candidate Kane arrested during a violent anti…

— Tokdog

No one, & I mean no one beats the right wing nut media for hate speech. It’s the right that’s intolerant, or am I missing something in the President’s tweets about banning immigrants, exporting them, breaking up families, written no uncontritutional travel bans, The police shooting first and asking questions later, getting off scott free after killing people, including children, Sessions and other Republican “leaders” working to give the police immunity from killing citizens; blocking the Russia investigation, lying to the people under oath about Trump and his greedy, corrupt gang of enablers and helpers? The Trump Bots are also responsible: They elected a man who admits to sexually assaulting women, defrauds people, cheats contractors out of their promised pay, a pedophilic Peeping Tom, a traitor who colluded with the Russians, who cares more about enriching himself than taking care of the people of America, a sneering, hateful, pathological liar of the worst kind.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Wow, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the people who make those same comments here in ADN. I know of one commentor that calls for a revolution in virtually every one of his/her…

— Raven33_2

And rightly so. Just as I know of one who spreads lies about the left in everyone of his/her posts.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

Since you don’t give examples, I can’t comment on your feelings, but even if true, the clear difference is that those calling for violence against Republicans and the President are in the national…

— Tokdog

What depiction of Trump being assasinated? The left has nothing on the Right for hateful, and I do mean HATEFUL, violent depictions of killing and/or injuring presidents & their families, not to mention depicting them as apes in high heels, for example. Where was your outcry against Ted Nugent when he advocated killing President Obama – then was invited to the White House by your President, where he insulted Clinton? How about all those threats by gun totng right wing thugs at political rallies ? How about the guy that viciously attacked a reporter for nothing, then was elected by the Right the next day? Where’s your outrage, you hypocrite?

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Tokdog

3 days ago

In reply to:

No one, & I mean no one beats the right wing nut media for hate speech. It’s the right that’s intolerant, or am I missing something in the President’s tweets about banning immigrants, exporting…

— TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

Wow…..I don’t even have to respond. Your own hateful words prove my point. Thank you.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

Wow, your own hateful comments provided the grist for my replies. Bullies don’t like it when they’re challenged. In stead, they pretend to be shocked and say, “Who me?”

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Tokdog

3 days ago

You must not own a mirror.

A cursory review of the comments you’ve left here shows you spewing your hatered and blind copy paste replies at an alarming rate. You are exactly the type of person that has excused extreme alt left violence and then pretends it’s everyone else’s fault. And after your long soliloquy earlier filled with hate filled comments, your best reply is that it’s my fault you act that way. Step outside the basement, breathe some air, take a walk, maybe talk to you neighbor and then try not to hate the world and everything in it you don’t like. You’ll be a better person.

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Raven33_2

3 days ago

In reply to:

Since you don’t give examples, I can’t comment on your feelings, but even if true, the clear difference is that those calling for violence against Republicans and the President are in the national…

— Tokdog

I did give an example and because I named the person, it was deemed uncivil. This person states “it’s time for a revolution” in most of their posts. I’m sure this will be deemed uncivil too.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

2 days ago

Wah!

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Raven33_2

23 hours ago

I’m a big boy. I don’t cry over liberal nonsense. Unlike the one responding.

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LNG & Weed is all we Need Walker

3 days ago

We should make sure all the congress is armed at all times… to protect themselves of course…… and perhaps go back to the days of the political duel.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

I’m not surprised by the shooting or Steve King’s reprehensible comments.

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Lightfoot Letters

3 days ago

Top Republican shot – The Washington Post (adn).

We probably can not stop some violence without creating a ‘police state’ where no one is free. However, some of the violence is caused by public policy. Public policy created 911; violence on our military bases; young women killed in San Francisco and San Diego; other citizens killed every day by non-citizens; the killing at the Christmas party in Ca. and the killing in a nite club in La. and the killing at a marathon in Boston.

We all feel for the dead. We burn candles and build monuments…We think up politically correct sayings usually ‘something strong.’… when in reality…we do nothing except invite more killing by our public policy !?

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

“Public policy created 911; violence on our military bases; young women killed in San Francisco and San Diego; other citizens killed every day by non-citizens; the killing at the Christmas party in Ca. and the killing in a nite club in La. and the killing at a marathon in Boston.”

9/11, Fort Hood, San Bernadino, Boston, Orlando were all committed by Islamic terrorists, so you are correct. The “Public Policy” of unvetted immigration and “student” Visas from hotbeds of Islamic terror lead to each of these.

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Clay McD

3 days ago

…. Gabby Gifford; Sandy Hook, Charlestown black church massacre, ….

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TJLYOM

3 days ago

3 lunatics on SSRI drugs…good examples. Google all three of them and look at their eyes. Tells you all you need to know.

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Bob Atkinson

3 days ago

In reply to:

“Public policy created 911; violence on our military bases; young women killed in San Francisco and San Diego; other citizens killed every day by non-citizens; the killing at the Christmas party in…

— TJLYOM

Then there’s this tweet from Republican Senator Rand Paul almost exactly a year ago today:

Senator Rand Paul ✔@RandPaul

.@Judgenap: Why do we have a Second Amendment? It’s not to shoot deer. It’s to shoot at the government when it becomes tyrannical!

8:48 AM – 23 Jun 2016

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Lars Bauer

3 days ago

In reply to:

…. Gabby Gifford; Sandy Hook, Charlestown black church massacre, ….

— Clay McD

“…. Gabby Gifford; Sandy Hook, Charlestown black church massacre,….”

.

….Could not have been stopped with additional, asinine gun laws– correct.

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Christopher Crews

3 days ago

In reply to:

“Public policy created 911; violence on our military bases; young women killed in San Francisco and San Diego; other citizens killed every day by non-citizens; the killing at the Christmas party in…

— TJLYOM

Crimes committed by: mullah, mullahs, illegals, mullahs, mullah……etc.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

“Public policy created 911; violence on our military bases; young women killed in San Francisco and San Diego; other citizens killed every day by non-citizens; the killing at the Christmas party in…

— TJLYOM

Let’s don’t forget violence by homophobes, xenophobe, misogynists, the police, President Trump, the Republican Party, Trump Bots, etc.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

…. Gabby Gifford; Sandy Hook, Charlestown black church massacre, ….

— Clay McD

Exactly. And more.

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TRUMP: 100 Days Of Failure And Counting

3 days ago

In reply to:

3 lunatics on SSRI drugs…good examples. Google all three of them and look at their eyes. Tells you all you need to know.

— TJLYOM

Tsk, tsk. Defending gun violence again.

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It Would Have Been a Massacre | Jeffrey A. Tucker   Leave a comment

The horrifying scene at a practice field in Alexandria, Virginia, at which Congressman Steve Scalise was shot in a shocking flurry of gunfire, could have been much worse. Rand Paul pointed out that “it would have been a massacre” had a member of the House leadership not been there. His presence guaranteed that the heavily armed Capitol Police could take him down. Many others present expressed similar feelings. They were sitting ducks. If the offensive gunfire could not be met by defensive gunfire, the bloodshed would have been far worse.

Source: It Would Have Been a Massacre | Jeffrey A. Tucker

 

Image result for image of self-defenseAs this case shows – and there are millions more like this one – force must be met with force to stop the violence.

The aftermath will include all the usual questions. What were the gunman’s motivations? Shooter James T. Hodgkinson’s Facebook page shows that he is a supporter of Bernie Sanders and socialism generally. Where did he get the gun? Did he obtain it legally with all the appropriate background checks? What does this scene imply about gun regulations and controls on distribution?To some degree, all these questions are beside the salient point. As this case shows – and there are millions more like this one – force must be met with force to stop the violence. If a murderous monster has the most firepower in the space, everyone else’s life is in the balance. The calls for gun control refuse to deal with this reality. To the extent they succeed in restricting people’s rights to defend themselves and others, they bear moral culpability for an increasingly violent society.

Defense Use

What happened at the baseball park was a classic case of defensive gun use. In the entire debate over guns, this is the point I find most compelling in a practical sense. Despite being raised in a gun-owning family, and having spent many hours at gun ranges and owning some myself, they are not my favorite things, which is to say I don’t really like them. I have no romantic attachment to them at all. I would rather live in society without them.

There is a strong reason for people like me to hope for a wide distribution of guns and firing skills.

And yet a society without guns is not an option. Given this, there is a strong reason for people like me to hope for a wide distribution of guns and firing skills. It is precisely because of my attitude, and others like me, that I hope that there are plenty of others out there, who have my back in case like this.The use of guns for defensive purposes makes the strongest case there is for liberalization of gun laws. Trevor Burris comments:

The prevalence of defensive gun use (DGU) is one of the most hotly debated issues in gun control policy. In the words of one study produced by the National Research Council, measuring DGU “has proved to be quite complex, with some estimates suggesting just over 100,000 defensive gun uses per year and others suggesting 2.5 million or more defensive gun uses per year.” That’s quite a range, but if it falls anywhere in that range then it is still a lot of DGU.

The dispute about the number of DGUs centers primarily on the definition of defensive gun use and the method of counting it. When the Bureau of Justice Statistics performs the National Crime Victimization Survey they ask about DGU, and they generally reach a number around 100,000. Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck and others have criticized that method because many people are understandably unwilling to tell a government agent that they have brandished or fired a weapon in self-defense. They may not know if what they did was legal, and they may illegally possess the weapon, to name just two concerns. Thus Kleck performed surveys designed to reach just defensive gun use without creating biased concerns in his subjects. Through that method he reached the number 2.5 million.

Feeling Safe

This is why the prevalence of private owners carrying guns makes me feel safer. To be sure, there are bad actors but the best foil to them are good actors who serve as a counterforce. Once you pay attention, you see examples everywhere.

Knowing that there is no way for government to ban guns — there is a black market in nearly every country with severe restrictions — the best protection for everyone is for ownership to be widespread and distributed through the population.

So I would like to make a plea to my fellow citizens: please buy guns. Carry them. Keep them in your homes and cars. It’s especially important to do this in public places, where freak murderers could conceivably lurk. The weapons should be loaded and dangerous, capable of killing with one shot.

I want every robber around every corner to hold the expectation that anyone he mugs is carrying a deadly weapon.

I especially desire this, because I don’t want to do this. I don’t like them. I don’t want them in my home. I don’t like shooting at the range. I don’t like looking at them, shopping for them, cleaning them, or even thinking about what they do to others. I loathe violence of all sorts, and hope to never have to use it. I’m a pacifist in spirit.The only way I can really hope to get away with indulging my temperament here is if others are willing to pick up the slack. I want burglars, kidnappers, thieves, and would-be mass murderers of all sorts to believe that every home in my neighborhood is heavily armed and populated by fearless gun owners – and for them to believe that my home is among them.

I want every robber around every corner to hold the expectation that anyone he mugs is carrying a deadly weapon. I would like to sit in theaters, airplanes, and restaurants where the trolls and scum among us believe that they could pay the ultimate price for savagery.

The thing is that I do not want to personally contribute to this cause in any way. I’m not up to it.

For Every Jew a 42

A friend who grew up in Brooklyn in the 1960s said this was a common slogan in his neighborhood: “For every Jew a 42.” It was commonly understood that if the Jews had been heavily armed in Germany, instead of systematically disarmed by the state as they were, the rise of the Nazis would have been checked, and perhaps the Holocaust could have been prevented. Neither he nor his friends were particularly interested in doing this but the point was clear. Today, he too hopes to be a free rider on gun nuts. I’m with him on this point.

What the law is should have nothing to do with our own personal choices about what we like or dislike, do or do not do.

As regards guns, as with marijuana and prostitution, what the law is should have nothing to do with our own personal choices about what we like or dislike, do or do not do. This view seems nearly extinguished in our world today. If you don’t drink sodas, you are happy to ban them. If you don’t like heroin, you think others should be prevented from consuming it. If you don’t like guns, you want them banned.Stand Up For Rights

That’s not how the free society works. The preservation of freedom requires that we be willing to stand up for the rights of others to own and do things we do not like but which harm no one, or, in the case of guns, actually save lives.

For this reason, I have far more respect for the teetotaler who favors a free market in liquor than I do for the heavy drinker who favors them same. Non-smokers should stand up for the right to smoke. And so too should people who do not own guns and have no desire to own guns stand up for the right to possess and carry.

Especially in the case of guns, those of us who do not want to handle guns have a special and personal interest in defending not only gun rights but also the proliferation of weapons among the citizenry. It’s the only way that we can truly deter crime and stop crime in public places when it is unleashed.

The only real means to prevent the emergence of a world safe for criminals and government is to see the proliferation of guns among everyone else. I’m sorry, but I will not do my part in this respect. But I will defend the rights of others to do so, with a sincere hope that they will own, train, and be ready. Yes, I’m a free rider, but gun owners need to know that I’m truly grateful.

Armed Citizen Saves Cop’s Life   Leave a comment

http://foxbaltimore.com/news/nation-world/passing-driver-kills-man-who-shot-arizona-officer-in-ambush

Although I always suspect in situations like this that the cop did something that set off the citizen (because their authoritarianism makes citizens feel like slaves and slaves rebel), I want to highlight that an armed citizen saved a cop’s life.

Synopsis – On a remote highway near Phoenix, an Arizona state trooper stopped to help at a car wreck. A man supposedly ambushed, shot and wounded him and was bashing the officer’s head against the pavement when a passing driver shot the perpetrator to death.

 

“My trooper would not be alive without his assistance,” Department of Public Safety Director Ralph Milstead said of the good Samaritan who stopped.

It is suspected that the man who shot the officer was driving the car that crash. A women was ejected from the wreck and died at the scene. Because the officer was severely injured and two of the others involved in the incident, actual details are sketchy. Another driver reported gunfire and a second trooper responded. Arizona police officials say the trooper was ambushed.

Apparently, the passerby asked permission to help the cop, the cop (who was being beaten at this point) gave it and the armed man gave the assailant an opportunity to stop the attack before he shot him.

Yeah, that sounds way to civilized for me. But the point is that once again an armed citizen prevented a larger tragedy.

 

 

Posted January 13, 2017 by aurorawatcherak in Gun control, Uncategorized

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Officer Charged … Finally   Leave a comment

Image result for image of police brutalityGood! This is the sort of common sense process that ought to accompany every officer-involved shooting. Anytime an officer shoots a citizen, no matter the circumstances, there ought to be a coroner’s inquest and a full investigation as if it were a crime BECAUSE it should not be presumed lawful for police to kill citizens. PERIOD! Then, if it is found that the civilian was shooting at the cop or trying to harm someone else … then and ONLY THEN should the police officer be exonerated and allowed back on duty.

This would force the police into the same position that an ordinary citizen is placed in if we are ever called upon to protect ourselves from a crime. No, police should NOT be treated as a special class of citizen.

But watch. This is only the first step in the process. Second-degree manslaughter is basically negligent homicide. Here in Alaska that carries about a two-year minimum sentence with a maximum sentence of 10 years. Philando Castile was murdered by this officer for exercising his Constitutional right to go forth armed. Because of the unfair bias towards police, expect Officer Yanez to be offered a plea deal that brings this down to something like reckless endangerment and likely offered a no-jail-time sentence. There will be no justice for Castile because he was a citizen acting in a lawful manner, but Yanez is a special class of citizen who is allowed to get away with murder.

If it goes to trial, expect him to be acquitted, because juries are notoriously sympathetic to cops … even when cops kill people who weren’t doing anything wrong. Lela

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/minnesota-prosecutors-provide-update-castile-case-43576549

A Minnesota police officer has been charged with second-degree manslaughter in the killing of Philando Castile, a black man whose girlfriend streamed the gruesome aftermath of the fatal shooting live on Facebook, prosecutors announced Wednesday.

St. Anthony police officer Jeronimo Yanez shot the 32-year-old during a July 6 traffic stop in the St. Paul suburb of Falcon Heights. Castile’s girlfriend, Diamond Reynolds, was in the car along with her young daughter at the time. The woman said Castile was shot several times while reaching for his ID after telling Yanez he had a gun permit and was armed.

Ramsey County Attorney John Choi, whose office will prosecute the case, said Yanez shot Castile seven times, and that the evidence shows Castile was calm and complied with the officer’s requests. Prosecutors believe Castile never tried to pull his handgun from his pocket, Choi said, adding that as Castile was dying, he moaned and uttered his final words: “I wasn’t reaching for it.”

Choi said the officer’s unreasonable fear cannot justify the use of deadly force.

“No reasonable officer, knowing, seeing and hearing what officer Yanez did at the time, would’ve used deadly force under these circumstances,” Choi said as he announced the charges. If convicted of second-degree manslaughter, Yanez could face a maximum prison sentence of 10 years.

Yanez’s attorney, Tom Kelly, has said Yanez, who is Latino, was reacting to the presence of a gun, and that one reason Yanez pulled Castile over was because he thought he looked like a possible match for an armed robbery suspect. Choi said Wednesday that Castile was not a suspect in that robbery.

Kelly did not immediately return phone messages seeking comment on the charges Wednesday.

Family members claimed Castile, an elementary school cafeteria worker, was racially profiled.

Choi got the case from investigators in late September and began reviewing the evidence for possible charges. Choi resisted pressure immediately after the shooting to turn the case over to a special prosecutor, but added one to his team to get an outside perspective. He also enlisted the help of national use-of-force consultants.

The shooting prompted numerous protests, including a weekslong demonstration outside the governor’s mansion and one protest that shut down Interstate 94 in St. Paul for hours. The interstate protest resulted in about 50 arrests and injuries to more than 20 officers, after police said they were hit with cement chunks, bottles, rocks and other objects.

The shooting also exposed a disproportionate number of arrests of African-Americans in St. Anthony, Lauderdale and Falcon Heights, which are all patrolled by the St. Anthony Police Department. The Associated Press reported in July that an analysis of police data showed black people made up nearly half of all arrests made by St. Anthony officers in 2016. Census data shows that just 7 percent of residents in the three cities are black.

The fatal shootings of black men and boys by police officers have come under heightened scrutiny since the 2014 death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and led to calls nationwide for officers to be held criminally responsible.

No charges were filed in the death of 18-year-old Brown, who was unarmed, after a grand jury found officer Darren Wilson acted in self-defense. The white officer had said Brown tried to grab his gun during a struggle through the window of the police vehicle and then came toward him threateningly after briefly running away.

Other police shooting deaths also did not result in charges, including the killings of 12-year-old Tamir Rice in 2014 in Cleveland and 24-year-old Jamar Clark last year in Minneapolis. A grand jury determined the white officer who shot Tamir had no way of knowing whether the boy, who was drawing a pellet gun from his waistband, was trying to hand it over or show them it wasn’t real.

In the Clark case, prosecutors said the two white officers involved in the shooting feared for their lives when Clark tried to grab an officer’s weapon during a struggle.

Officers have been charged in other cases, though. Michael Slager, a white officer in North Charleston, South Carolina, who has since been fired, is currently on trial for murder in the 2015 death of 50-year-old Walter Scott, an unarmed black man who was shot while running from a traffic stop. More recently, Betty Jo Shelby, a white Tulsa, Oklahoma, police officer was charged with first-degree manslaughter in the Sept. 16 shooting of Terence Crutcher, a 40-year-old unarmed black man whose car was stopped in the middle of the road.

When looking at whether to file charges, authorities must determine if the officer believed he or she, or fellow officers, were in danger in the moment the decision is made to shoot. If the fear of danger is deemed reasonable, charges are typically not filed. To prove a serious charge such as murder, prosecutors must also show that the officer was not just reckless, but had ill intentions.

Posted November 19, 2016 by aurorawatcherak in Government

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Try Being Friends   Leave a comment

About three decades ago, my husband and I met his now-best friend, a Native fella – half-Eskimo – who introduced us to Alaska’s gun culture.

Image result for image of talking to opponentsTo be fair, I had been on the fringes of that culture my whole life. Growing up in Alaska, guns had always been. They were like frying pans or cars … a useful tool that just were. I wasn’t afraid of them because I was taught how to shoot, first rifles and then handguns, when I was young. In those days, I still hiked into the Alaska wilderness without a gun … this was before I knew someone who was mauled by a bear after he shot bear spray into the bear’s nose and discovered that doesn’t disable bears … it mostly just pisses them off.

Ray, however, was raised in the gun culture. He owned several guns then. He owns more now. He’s never felt like shooting up a shopping center, although as a teacher in the public schools, he wishes he could carry concealed because he dislikes being helpless in the face of someone else’s murderous rampage.

But that’s really a side discussion. My reason for bringing up our friendship with Ray is that, prior to him introducing us to his collection (what some folks might call an arsenal), I always figured that anyone who owned more than a single 22 for bird hunting, a single 300 for large game and a single handgun for home protection was something of a gun nut who sort of creeped me out. I’d done some practice shooting, of course, but the idea of reloading my own bullets so I could afford to kill dozens of (paper) targets in a single afternoon had never occurred to me.

Image result for image of talking to opponents

In fact, when Brad first moved to Alaska he was absolutely freaked out while working in an Alaskan village to realize that EVERYBODY there owned guns … carried them with them … left them loaded while leaning in the corner. Later, when we started dating, he realized that gun ownership and treating it like a tool was normal in Alaska. And, then we met Ray and we both changed our definition of normal.

Brad grew up in a culture where no “nice or normal” people owned guns or enjoyed doing anything with them. He never knew anyone who was “nice and normal” who had any (or at least admitted to having any) guns.  Many decent people who have no interest in guns simply can’t imagine what it must be like to be someone who is passionate about something whose primary purpose is (from the perspective of the observer) to kill people. While we endless debate gun ownership and concealed carry using words, logic and fact — each taking our respective sides in the issue, the arguments constructed using these three tools of intelligence are not what brings people to their pro- or anti-gun position. For most people, that position is derived of from emotional or intuitive beliefs. Brad grew up in a city where guns were used to kill people. I grew up in a wilderness where guns were used to defend against carnivorous animals. We employed the tools of logic retroactively in defense of our personal position and so does everyone else. Most of our political views are arrived at by emotional or intuitive discovery.

And as reasoning is not the source, whence either disputant derives his tenets; it is in vain to expect that any logic, which speaks not to the affections, will ever engage him to embrace sounder principles. David Hume

 

What most anti-gun people are really feeling (rather than thinking) is that there has to be something strange about you if you like guns. They see the gun as an instrument fit only for killing people … or maybe animals (which they often feel emotional about as well). If you like this instrument of death, you are sufficiently different from an anti-gun person that you are viewed as dangerous, mentally ill or culturally inferior. You’ve become the “other”. You are now allowed to be denigrated, segregated and subjugated by having your individual rights taken from you “for your own good” and “the good of society”.

Image result for image of integration on gun issuesWe’ve been here before with other subcultures within our society. Think blacks between Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement. Yes, we are discussing cultural segregation here. Anti-gun culture believes it has the high moral ground because “those gun nuts” are different from them, so therefore must be avoided and controlled, but this belief is based on ignorance. Meet an anti-gun person and you will almost always learn that they don’t know anyone on any real level who is not an anti-gunner. Like all such cultural segregation, the barriers can be broken down by getting to know those on the other side of the gap.

 

This, by the way, works both ways. People who favor more gun regulation are not actually motivated by taking away our liberty. They don’t see it as a liberty issue like they do smoking pot, having sex with whomever they want or the question of what to do with their Sunday mornings. Conversely, people who favor robust 2nd amendment protections do not have a higher threshold for the acceptance of violence or aggression. In fact, they probably carry because they have a LOWER tolerance for aggression and they want to protect themselves and others (maybe you) from the violence of others.

If you made some friends on the other side of the issue, you would know that those who think differently than you are not evil. They may be sincerely deceived because they’ve never actually talked to anyone on your side of the issue. And you might learn something too. Brad, especially, became much more accepting of guns from having become Ray’s friend and Ray eventually came to accept trigger guards and gun safes as a good way to keep his kids from accidentally shooting a family member.
Image result for image of integration on gun issuesCultural identity differences are often erroneously attributed to political identity affiliations, but studies show it’s really the other way around. What is important to us in our culture drives the political choices we make. Not understanding this empowers political partisans who have a vested interest in maintaining power by keeping us divided. The last thing they want is for us to become committed to protecting all of our individual rights, including the ones we ourselves do not exercise.

Gun owners are just one kind of subculture. It’s a highly porous subculture made up of people of all walks of life who largely agree on this one issue. There are many others, which are topics for another blog post. The thing about judging a subculture from the outside is that we frequently can’t imagine how people can think the way they do. At the best, we feel condescending toward them. You may even feel justified in being disgusted by or terrified of members of the gun owning subculture.

Yeah, “disgust” is a very strong word that we usually don’t want to admit to feeling, but if the idea of my owning a gun hits you on a visceral level, then your reaction is probably not rational, though you may apply reason later to justify your emotional position. And, I’m going to right here acknowledge that I feel “disgust” when I think about people who want to disarm ordinary citizens and let criminals and government thugs have complete control of the culture. And that’s even knowing people like my sister-in-law who opposes guns.
Image result for image of cain killed abel with a rockAnnie is a good, decent person who was raised back East and knows nobody (save her brother and sister-in-law) who owns guns. She could not imagine why anyone would need one. When we took her hiking in the Alaska wilderness, she threw a fit when I donned my sidearm, certain that it was going to leap out of the holster and shoot one of our party. I “compromised” by going behind the truck and switching the configuration of a back holster under my shirt so we were a full day into the trip before she realized I was still armed and nobody had died. She realized it when a moose stormed out of the trees and I pulled the gun when the moose didn’t swerve to avoid us. I didn’t shoot the moose, but the shot I fired over its head convinced it not to continue in our direction. We don’t know for certain what it was running from, but we found fresh bear scat and tracks in the direction it had come from … which helped Annie to understand why we brought a gun.

Prior to that experience, Annie would have said that my arguments for allowing people to be armed were wrong. “Guns are dangerous. They harm people. Nobody needs a gun.” But stop and think about this. I’ve never shot anyone. I’ve never had an accidental discharge of one of my guns (because there’s no such thing as an accidental discharge if you’re handling your guns properly). I’ve never had a kid get possession of a gun of mine and be able to do anything harmful with it (my guns have trigger guards that I barely have finger strength enough to disengage, let alone a kid, so if putting them out of reach doesn’t work, they can’t be fired by a child anyway). Ray has never had any of these things happen either. And neither have the vast majority of the millions of gun-owners who exist out there.

LelaSo, knowing that, just consider this. Ray is your friend and you must tell him to his face that “You should not be allowed to own a gun to protect your family. I would rather the mentally ill guy who lives next door to you be able to stab your entire family to death than you be able to protect your loved ones with that gun.”  How would you feel delivering that message? Could you imagine yourself telling me and my family that we should stay out of the wood or accept that being mauled by a bear is one of the risks? Could you imagine yourself attending my son’s funeral and telling me that we should have simply stayed out of the woods if we didn’t want him to die that way?

No, really! Let yourself imagine what that conservation would be like. I’ve got tears on my cheeks and snot running out of my nose and we’re standing over the closed casket of my son because you were so opposed to my son owning a gun that you’d rather he be mauled by a bear than able to protect himself.

Image result for image of integration on gun issuesBecause, if you’re going to take the disarmament stance on guns, that is actually the argument you’re making and you should have the moral courage to say it to the faces of the people you’re advocating to disarm and leave helpless in a dangerous world. To me, that makes the world more dangerous than it was when I had a gun to protect myself and my family. If you’re advocating for the government to do the disarmament for you so you can avoid the discomfort of that conversation, then you’re a moral coward who doesn’t want to own up to the implications of your own positions. And if you knew anyone in the gun culture, you might be able to put a face to the people you are segregating, denigrating and subjugating. It then becomes a whole lot easier to both imagine that conversation and imagine attending the funeral of their kid or wife who maybe would not have been stabbed to death or eaten by a bear had they been armed. In other words, you would grow some compassion and empathy for the “other” PEOPLE you are judging.

 

 

I know Ray to be a sane, kind man who would never shoot up a shopping mall. I know that because I know Ray. Because I know him, I think the rest of us are better off when people like him have a few of the guns. I’d rather have the guns in my hands or Ray’s than only in the hands of criminals or our political masters. That’s because I see people in the gun culture as people, not as opponents. If we can challenge ourselves by focusing on nurturing our human connection with our political opponents by relating to them as people, we’d see increased success in getting our opponents to see the world our way.

Collapsing the subculture barriers in our society through actual human relationships dissolves our political differences rather than simply negotiates them. By interacting with those who hold different viewpoints from us, we discover that our differences of political principle are really rationalizations of our bigotry toward those whose experiences, activities and pleasures we simply cannot imagine sharing.

They’re Coming for Your Keys   Leave a comment

By Wallace Schwam, MD
AmmoLand.com

August 13, 2016

USA – We feared it was going to happen. And guess what? It did.

Today, July 14, 2026, on the tenth anniversary of the Nice, France, truck rampage, the President made a stunning announcement.  Henceforth, the private ownership of vehicles would be forbidden across the nation.  In the future, only the police, the army and government officials will have the privilege of driving.

The government, explained the President, had exhausted all other options. Our nation, it seems, will follow the same route it took years ago when it tried to ban the private ownership of firearms.

The attentive observer might recall the steps that led up to this drastic curtailment of freedom.  First, trucks were made smaller so that their impact would do less damage. However, this forced more deliveries to be made causing greater traffic congestion.  The vehicles were then limited to two gallons of gas at a time to diminish their range.  This measure was defeated by gas hoarders.

Finally, recall the edict that all cars and trucks were to be robot-controlled.  The robots, of course, were factory programmed not to hit anything.  Oh boy, did the hackers have fun with that!  Can we ever forget the time that, to the horror of their passengers, robo-cars were maliciously re-programmed to hit any sign along the road that said “Drive Safely.”  And then there was the robo-bus that hit a dozen people while its mechanical voice dedicated itself to the ISIS motor pool.

Why are the most advertised Gold and Silver coins NOT the best way to invest?

Of course, there were always critics of these policies.  One of the most vocal was the Cars, Yes, Terrorists No movement. The government promptly labeled them a hate group, as banning anyone from driving because they were radicalized immigrants was deemed uninclusive.  Alas, when a disgruntled lone wolf turned a gasoline delivery truck into a giant Molotov cocktail, the final decision was made.

The government did away with motor vehicles altogether.https://rcm-na.amazon-adsystem.com/e/cm?lt1=_blank&bc1=FFFFFF&IS2=1&bg1=FFFFFF&fc1=000000&lc1=0000FF&t=lewrockwell&o=1&p=8&l=as4&m=amazon&f=ifr&ref=ss_til&asins=1938357000&MsrketPlace=US

In this endeavor, they were greatly aided by the medical group Doctors Against Driving (DAD). DAD conducted a scientific survey asking patients whether they’d rather be kicked by a horse or get run over by a Mack truck.  The majority of respondents preferred being kicked by a horse as long as it wasn’t in the head.

Opposing them was the organization Physicians for Responsible Ownership or PRO. PRO reminded the public of the disastrous attempt at gun confiscation that had failed a decade earlier. We all remember that when 3D printers started producing firearms, the government finally gave up.  To the bureaucrats’ surprise, the next terrorist that opened fire in a café was gunned down by the patrons who didn’t wait for the police to show up.

That’s all for now. I need time to walk to work.

Reprinted with permission from AmmoLand.com.

Posted August 17, 2016 by aurorawatcherak in Gun control, Uncategorized

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Let’s Get Personal   5 comments

Okay, not THAT personal because this is a sort of anonymous blog and this is the Internet, so there is a whole list of personal experiences I can’t share with you because they would “out” me.

So I flip through the Lela files, ticking first one and then another off, trying to decide which is personal, but not so personal that everyone in Fairbanks would go “Oh, there she is!”

Have you checked out my fellow authors yet? They all have personal lives too.

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So, I decided to talk about the most embarrassing moment of my life. Well, not the MOST … but that one involves other people whose privacy I choose not to violate.

Let’s be clear here … I am not in favor of dancing naked under the midnight sun in the town square. I don’t post things from my personal life much … not on Lela’s blog and not on my personal Facebook page. You don’t need to know what I ate for lunch or that I had the dog waxed. And really intensely personal experiences are often subject to judgment. This is the Internet where the people you “meet” are often highly judgmental and not at all restrained by morality. So, in choosing a personal post, I went long-view, to something I made my peace with a long time ago and that doesn’t affect my family.

But then I hit PAUSE. I had the whole article written, but I knew there was something else I needed to say. It was too glossy, too innocent. And, then I saw Katie Mitkof at the street fair after the Golden Days Parade and knew I couldn’t wimp out.

Ironically, that innocent story of embarrassment happened about four months after the one I’m going to share today that is anything but innocent. Life … shadow and light … fields of clover hiding piles of feces.

The winter of 1973, Fairbanks, Alaska was under siege. It was the height of the TransAlaska Pipeline boom, our population had tripled in a year and most of those new residents were transient single males with a lot of easy money who had been crammed with other men in the Pipeline camps for months on end. They would hit Fairbanks to drink heavily, rub bellies with a prostitute or a dozen and generally tear up the rules of society. Fairbanks had a small police force as befitted a town with less than 10,000 residents, but with suddenly more than 30,000, the chief had hired every bar room brawler he could find and put them on the job with virtually no training. So it’s not surprising that they caused a three-bar riot that spilled out into the street and required every cop in the city to bring it under control. Human nature being human nature, it also not surprising that some folks decided to take advantage of the cops being tied up with a riot.

I’ve covered the events of that evening before. Three large drunk men in Alyeska’s distinctive orange parkas tried to force their way through our rickety back door and my mom, all 90-pounds of furious mama grizzly, chased them off with her 357 revolver. The cops never came. The 911 lady said they couldn’t and said, if they came back, Mom should shoot them.

They didn’t come back to our house. We weren’t low-hanging fruit. Mom showed them they could potentially die to get their rocks off at our house. Undeterred, they went down the street, forced their way into another house, beat the dad into submission and forced him to watch while they raped his daughter … a classmate of mine. They then set fire to the cabin and disappeared into the ice fog. Although I gave a pretty good description of the men to the cops when they showed up the next day, nobody ever found them, leaving the victims to live in the destruction.

*Disclaimer – I’ve changed the names to protect the privacy of the people involved

I didn’t live a particularly protected childhood. Life on a frontier is often rough and tumble and lacking in the white picket fence. I knew what those men wanted when they were pushing on that flimsy door with the great big single pane window. I was relieved when Mom showed up with a gun and they left. The consequences never occurred to either of us until the next day. When I got to school and the news began to filter to us that Katie Mitkof had been raped, I knew that those were the men who Mom had protected me from. We lived a couple of blocks away. In that moment, my mother became my hero. She had saved my future, my ability to love and be loved, and to enjoy sex. I’m a mom, a wife, a homeowner, a community member who works a professional job and is involved in charitable activities. I owe that all to Mom’s actions that night. By the way, Mom went to her grave feeling guilty that she followed the law and didn’t shoot the men on our porch, because she had the (albeit illegal) power to protect Katie Mitkof’s future too. She would have been a greater hero that night if she’d pulled the trigger on the clear leader of the three. She also would have spent the next several years in prison for manslaughter. She felt guilty that she had chosen  her own life over Katie’s. Of couse, she had no way of knowing that at the time, but it was one of her big life regrets.

I’ve run into Katie several times over the years. She has struggled. She’s had four children. Two were taken by social services, two were raised by her father, who was State-mandated to not allow her access to them. She wasn’t allowed to keep any of them because she’s a drunk and a drug addict. She’s never held a legitimate job in her life and she has a long, long rap sheet for petty crimes. She’s the kind of prostitute who sells her intimacy for a 6-pack of cheap beer.

Mr. Mitkof didn’t have a gun because he’d done time for a felony as a much younger man. According to my mom, it wasn’t for anything violent, and he’d straightened up, been a good father and a good worker around town. He owned a handyman service that did really good work. He’s still alive and has never been in trouble since. He’s lived a quiet life, raised five kids after his wife died and at least two grandchildren. He was probably never a risk to society, but the law was the law, so he had been officially disarmed and, being a law-abiding citizen who wanted to be around to raise his children (and later his grandchildren), he didn’t have a gun.

It might have been really useful when those men were pushing their way into his house. Having grown up in an Alaska village, Carl knew how to use a gun and just brandishing had been enough for my mother to completely change the course of my future. All Carl Mitkof had was a baseball bat and that wasn’t enough against three big men. Katie managed to call 911 while they were beating down her father, but the cops were all at that bar fight they caused.

You can’t make this crap up.

Katie and I had very different lives that are inextricably linked. Some of that is completely due to choices we made that differed, but I can’t help thinking that it’s been easier for me to make those choices because I wasn’t gang-raped at 13. I can love and accept love. I control my own sexuality, who I have sex with and whether to control my contraception. My trust issues are much more manageable. I have some things I’d like not to remember, but they are fodder for my writing, not the stuff of nightmares that can only be blotted out by heavy psychoactive substances. I think about Katie whenever I am given a blessing. She flitted through my mind when I graduated high school (she was in my class, but had dropped out in sophomore year). When my daughter was little, we ran into Katie during a very difficult time of our lives. She had just had her third child and the State had awarded custody to her father, who would only allow her supervised visits (in violation of the agreement he’d made with the State to not allow her any access). As she cried and admitted she’s not safe for her own baby, I thanked God to have my own dark night of the soul rather than Katie’s life. My life has not always been fun times, but at least it hasn’t been Katie’s life.

I’m no one special. God did not step into intervene for me that night and then choose to destroy Katie’s life. She didn’t deserve to be gang-raped anymore than I did. The decision of what happened to her and didn’t happen to me was not God’s decision, but the decision of government officials who had decided my mom was permitted to own a gun while Mr. Mitkof would be officially disarmed.

I guess the lives of former felons and their families don’t matter. That doesn’t really fit on a bumper sticker, but it is TRUE (and another topic entirely).

Years later, I was sharing this story. One of the men in the group was a former cop and he said “Isn’t it s**tty that our government decided those **** deserved to be protected so they could rape that little girl?” I count that as the day the government-school-installed scales started to come off my eyes. What this former cop had come to understand through his experience of being a cop (that it took me several more years to fully understand) is Mr. Mitkof wasn’t permitted to defend his daughter because a distant federal government, in its infinite totalitarian insanity, had determined that his owning a gun was too much of a risk to society so his daughter deserved to be raped. The rapists deserved protection from Mr. Mitkof, but Katie didn’t deserve any protection from the rapists.

Thus explains my deep and abiding resistence to gun control. Life is not easy and safe and the cops don’t show up when you need them the most. Constitutionally, according to the federal courts and the Supreme Court, they’re not required to do so. If you haven’t experienced reality at its most savage, you’ve been lucky not to have your illusions shattered. I actually pray you remain insulated from reality, but that doesn’t mean the world is safe. It just means your neighborhood is. My neighborhood is fairly safe now, but it hasn’t always been and I remember that. If you choose to be unarmed, that’s your choice … for YOURSELF. It shouldn’t be a choice you can impress upon me, because you don’t know my life and you don’t own the potential consequences of my being disarmed. You should not have the authority to impress YOUR personal choices upon me, just as I should not have the authority to push my personal choices on you.

There is a very convoluted belief in our society that if we just get rid of the guns, violence will be reduced, but it certainly wasn’t that night. Not having a gun didn’t protect Mr. Mitkof from violence and it certainly didn’t protect Katie. Gun control protected the bad guys at the Mitkof house while Mom’s gun prevented violence at our house. When you disarm ordinary people, you empower the bad guys. That I know on a deep and personal level because I have lived through that experience.

 

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