Is American Really Free?   17 comments

I ran across these questions and thought, hey, that’s some food for thought.

 

Do Americans live in a free society when they need to get a permit to have a garage sale?

(This one – I can honestly say that Alaska has no such rule)

Do Americans live in a free society when the government listens to their phone calls?

Do Americans live in a free society when police issue tickets to motorists for not wearing seatbelts?

(I wear a seatbelt, but I resent that I am forced to wear a seatbelt. Wearing a seatbelt should be a personal choice, not a government requirement.)

Do Americans live in a free society when they need a salt-water fishing license?

(Everyone needs a fishing license in Alaska, regardless of what water the fish are swimming in.)

Do Americans live in a free society when the United States is the only developed country in the world with a drinking age of 21?

Do Americans live in a free society when they can go to jail for purchasing too much Sudafed to relieve their stuffy nose?

(I had to show ID to buy barbecue lighter fluid the other day. I take it this means that my 17-year-old — who regularly carries the shotgun while we hike in forests we KNOW there are bears in) is not allowed to host a barbecue without parental oversight).

Do Americans live in a free society when they have to be scanned, groped, and forced to throw out tubes of toothpaste over 3.4 ounces before they can board an airplane?

(I believe I’m engaged to a TSA agent here in Fairbanks, she has felt me up so often in the last few years.)

Do Americans live in a free society when police can break down your door in the middle of the night and drag you out of bed if you are suspected of having illegal drugs in your home?

Do Americans live in a free society when beer brewed at home cannot be sold and the amount of beer one can brew is restricted?

Do Americans live in a free society when the government regulates the size of the holes in Swiss cheese?

Do Americans live in a free society when it is illegal to resell a concert ticket?

Do Americans live in a free society when the government reads their e-mails?

Do Americans live in a free society when they are limited to six withdrawals from their savings accounts per month?

(This isn’t true … or my bank ignores this rule. Since the Target mess, I’ve been keeping my money in my savings account and transferring what I need whenever I go shopping, so that if my POS card is hacked, there won’t be much there to get. My bank has never sent me a letter of warning and I regularly go over four withdrawals in a month.)

Do Americans live in a free society when police drive around in unmarked older vehicles to ensnare unsuspecting motorists?

Do Americans live in a free society when in many states, no alcoholic beverages of any kind can be sold before a certain time on Sunday?

Do Americans live in a free society when the government regulates the amount of water that toilets are allowed to flush?

(How many of us these days need to flush twice to get the toilet paper to go down or three times to get some more earthy to go down?)

Do Americans live in a free society when the United States has one of the highest per-capita prison populations in the world?

(25% of the population has a criminal record now).

Do Americans live in a free society when the Supreme Court has said that police can “strip-search individuals who have been arrested for any crime before admitting the individuals to jail, even if there is no reason to suspect that the individual is carrying contraband.”

Do Americans live in a free society when in many states it is illegal for car dealers to be open on Sunday?

Do Americans live in a free society when police can perform forcible DNA, urine, and blood extractions?

Do Americans live in a free society when there are a myriad of federal and state laws that restrict, regulate, or prohibit gambling?

Do Americans live in a free society when they need a license to cut someone’s hair?

Do Americans live in a free society when the government seizes more assets from Americans than the amount of money taken in burglaries?

Do Americans live in a free society when they collectively spend more in taxes than they do on food, clothing, and housing combined?

Do Americans live in a free society when they can be locked in a cage for possessing too much of a plant the government doesn’t approve of?

17 responses to “Is American Really Free?

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  1. I get it -we are not 100% free -but not one of these laws would I change. If we do -America would be a rip off and dangerous. It upsets me about the criminal system being so big -why is that? Do you really believe it is these laws? To me, we are a lazy society that wants everything the easy way. And, if we can’t get it the way we want, we will just take it and live as we chose. Other countries teach more respect, hard work and dignity. Maybe that is what we need to work harder at -then these rules would be unneccesary.
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    • Really? How does it make it dangerous to require a permit for a garage sale? Alaska doesn’t do that and there have been no deaths reported associated with garage sales. I wear my seatbelt, but that effects no one but me. If I don’t wear my seatbelt, it doesn’t risk the lives of anyone else. As Thomas Jefferson said “Whatever does not pick my pocket or break my leg is none of my concern.” The ripoff is that we’re not allowing people to use their own brains and deal one-on-one with one another like intelligent adults.

      The United States used to be filled with busy, industrious people, before our government started requiring the people to get a permit for everything and started placing laws that govern pretty much every human interaction. All of these laws set barriers to business activity and natural human interaction virtually impossible because we always have to have an eye on whether a bureaucrat in Washington DC will like how we say “hello” to each other in the morning or whether or not our neighbor approves of our beliefs this week. Where is the respect or dignity in forcing people to do what you want simply because your ideology is in vogue at the moment?

      Get rid of these rules and the hard work may return pretty quickly. Respect and dignity may take some time because, unfortunately, forcing people to do things your way in violation of their deeply held beliefs generally leads to long-term enmity.

      But, I can tell you from living in Alaska, which has had a live-and-let live attitude for a long time, that respect and dignity doesn’t have to be legislated. It works better if it is not forced.

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      • Oh, I agree about not forcing others into respect and dignity. It must be taught in the home first. Some of these rules I agree with you, it is the ones that others rule over and take advantage of others -that drive me insane. Over and over people were taking advantage of the innocent, those that had to accept and those who did not understand. If they would never have started some of this creed and corruption -the laws would have been made to protect others, who couldn’t protect themselves against those with power and money. They seem ridiculous cause we should be able to rule ourselves but without one human caring for another -no one will! We are selfish and padding our own pockets is priority over people. I don’t understand it, I wish it wasn’t so, but this is the way it is. If you can come up with better solutions -then do your part and run for offices making your voice heard. I’d love to have better candidates then what we have and have had. Sometimes, when laws are passed things are tagged to the bills that are awful, and destructive -how do we get around that if there is a need that won’t get fixed without the tag?

        Listen, I’m not saying I have the answers. I’m not saying I don’t see your point. I’m not even saying we should have these laws. All I’m saying was that things had to change at the time each of these bills were created -you didn’t live then (at least I don’t get the impression you did).

        It’s up to your generation to step up and make positive changes -but first you got to figure how to protect the people. I hope you are successful!

        As far as permits -they are riduclous -but how do we do prevent things like over fishing or hunting without rules and regulations? Garage sales -well, I just don’t get that one, and we don’t have that in Indiana or I would fight it. People are greedy -they won’t care about you unless you do something about it.

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      • I don’t know who you’re interacting with, but my experience is different. I’ve met few business people who were actively seeking to defraud the public. It isn’t in their best interest to do so. Where I live in Alaska, word gets around and pretty soon your car dealership is broke because nobody will buy a car from you (true story). So businesses seek to make a profit (which is necessary if they want to stay in business), but they don’t gouge people because if they did, nobody would buy from them. Honest dealing is in the best interest of most businesses and so most businesses practice honest dealing. But they are all burdened by heavy regulation that exists just in case someone wants to defraud the public. That reduces productivity, drives costs higher and limits competition … in the long-run, it is the consumer who pays the cost of government regulation.

        Many laws that supposedly protect us from the mysterious “they” who would oppress us are really not regulating actual behavior, but are setting up artificial classes of “privileged”. In past generations, it was whites and minorities were less-thans. Today, everywhere this American Indian looks, I see minorities are the “privileged”, allowed to force others to do things their way.

        I suspect if we just got rid of all the laws — took it back to the actual text of the Constitution (with the amendments, of course), we would be the better for it because we would be forced (but not coerced) to talk to one another and respect one another as equals rather than as competing protected classes.

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      • Alaska has very small communities and self-regulation is necessary to live. In the lower states -it is a different story. No one respects the orginal constitution in its singularity. There are to many loopholes that will be legal. That is why changes were made in the beginning. People didn’t just wake up one day and decide they need to have more control over the people -it was the result of actions being taken that were harming the people. Also, it was gradual. For every action, there is always a consequence -that is true. But, inaction becomes a lawless land full of people legally stealing and corruption becomes rampant. Again, I say -if you have ideas you believe in, get involved by running for an office. Make changes for the positive, but you have to see everything from all sides in order to see why things were done -and then you can after a better idea how to move our world. Remember, for every action (whether for the good or bad) their is a reaction. No matter how hard you try to do good -bad will come from it and vice-versa. For instance, Social Security. When it was developed it was to help those that would retire without any money because we had families suffering after the great depression. SS was supposed to be the answer. What happened? People started insisting they needed their money while they were still young and SS became the number one source of income for the weak (both from illness, disability and laziness). The government has now reduced you to a number and with that number they know virtually everything about you with just a click. The government got greedy with all the accumulating money and began co-mingling money until SS has begun to dwindle and will one day run out. So here are three examples of something good becoming a huge detriment of motivation for American’s to take advantage.

        So, when deciding to make changes you’ve got to think outside the box to all the possibilities with out running in like a giant buffalo -ready to change the world based upon beliefs that have not been thoroughly researched. I wish you luck!

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      • dvaal, you are almost there, but you don’t realize it. First, were the beliefs of American progressives “thoroughly researched” before they were implemented. Hell, no! After over a century of most Americans (Civil War excepted) living in a largely live-and-let-live localized, decentralized society, the progressives insisted we needed the government in everyone’s business. That hadn’t been tried here before. There was no research on what that might do to a free society. They just went about instituting it and forced about people who thought it wasn’t a good idea to go along. Yes, it was incremental. Like the frog in the pot, we didn’t feel the heat growing higher and now we’re on the edge of societal extinction.

        The economy is moribund. It hasn’t grown in years and it won’t, not with $20 trillion in national debt.and negative interest rates. When it finally collapses from the weight of our stupidity, it will take the government with it.

        The problem is not too much freedom. The problem is not enough freedom. Businesses can’t innovate, people can’t make use of out-of-the-box thinking.

        You’re right about government. You can run for office, but if you’re not rich or connected, you are not going to be elected and, if you are, as Ron Paul discovered, making a change in the halls of Congress is impossible. Incremental loss of liberty works. Incremental return to liberty has not been successful. It gave us the neo-cons and the current Trump-Clinton competion. No matter who wins (and that would include Sanders) the national popularity contest, the people of America will be ruled by a tyrant.

        Things have to change. I’ve committed to changing my world by talking to people like you and hoping you will eventually see the truth that forcing your neighbor (even through the coercion of the government) to do what you want even when it is against their best interests or traditionally held beliefs just leads to societal anger and eventual revolution. I believe it’s coming. I hope it happens peacefully, surfing the bore tide of a catastrophic event, but it’s coming.

        I’ll even offer you evidence. Watch the Sanders supporters outside of the Trump rallies, rioting to shut down free speech. That’s where America is headed, maybe as early as November. Heck, we’re already there. No matter who wins by some narrow margin, the other half of the country is going to feel disinfranchised and insist they’re being oppressed, then refuse to accept the elected tyrant. The electoral process no longer works. We need to find another way and I don’t think DC dictating to individuals is going to work any better than the electoral system has.

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      • Still, I believe what most of what you are sayin is true. However, to live in a society that is corrupt -you must find a way to adjust the dynamics of the people. Just allowin them to choose every action, rather lawful or not, because it is what they want -won’t work!
        Listen, I’m not out there sayin you aren’t headed down a road of visual understandin(my _ isn’t workin, I don’t know why) but, by creatin mass hatred toward our country -we won’t solve anything and we will for sure cause chaos of the people to the people in the end. Stuff needs to be altered but turnin away from us as a whole will divide us. I don’t want to see that happen -yet, it could. If it does, we only have ourselves to blame (and I mean everyone, not just those that will cause the division, the overnment -but all the people, even those that remain silent. It saddens me and I sincerely hope that you will be part of the solution rather than the division. Always wishin the best for you and your future.

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      • I don’t buy it and here’s why. If corrupt people elect other corrupt people to lead us, then why do we supposed the corruption magically goes away because they’re in elected office? You know the saying “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” So, these corrupt people are now elected to office and claim they are attempting to “adjust the dynamics of people”, as you call it, to some supposedly better end. First, how can that end be better when the consequence of non-compliance is the State will destroy us? It makes the whole of society into a slave nation chained to the yoke of an ideal that does not exist in fact and cannot be achieved by the method being used. You cannot legislate morality and you can’t coerce love. Look around at the United States of America in 2016 and ask yourself — are we better off than when the federal government wasn’t involved in every aspect of our lives? Were people in the 1920s more or less angry than we are today. Were there more shootings back then when guns had no controls over them or fewer? Was the imbalance in the economy greater or lesser than it is today?

        Certainly, there have to be some rules in society in order for there to be any sort of order, but when those rules are arbitrary and change with every political cycle, when they violate the foundational law of the land, when they require people to violate traditional morality or to choose between feeding their family and providing someone else’s medical care — that is enforced conformity for the sake of governance. It doesn’t create harmony. It lays the bonfire for political revolution.

        But you are right to a certain extent. At this time in American history, if the enforced coercive order collapses, we become the Reign of Terror and not the American Revolution, because this society has no grounding in self-discipline or morals. Yes, there is a minority of us who have the skills for self-governance, but the vast majority of Americans are utterly unprepared to act as moral individuals.

        However, I should caution that the Reign of Terror was caused by arbitrary coercive government refusing to recognize the rights of the people to self-governance.

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      • Life is a funny thing. The longer you live it the more you see. Some good, some bad. Youth -it offers ideals based upon passion, and a new eye.

        What youth can’t grasp is time. In the 1920’s, first of all that is a time so far back it feels to long ago to grasp. But, it was real -and the people at that time (believe it or not) had many of the same concerns you have now. Think about it. The children were dancing wildly with the charlston. They were listening to jazz music and girls wore dresses far to revealing, and hid their waist line. Plus, smoking began, hitting record numbers across the land as the ‘in’ thing. This was rebellion -in the worst way to a parent stiffly raised in the 1800’s.
        This seems so innocent in your mind, and not even worth discussing. At that time, people were frightened. As they should have been because the 20’s were the beginning of the rebellion that has led to where we are right now.

        Not only did women step outside the house and demand their independence, they began the movement of “self.” What I need will come first.
        Al capone and other mobsters followed. You think there is a lot of killing now -you should have been around then. Only difference -killing was still pretty much accepted in society so most were not to concerned as long as they were only killing each other. Well, this worked until they started killing family members -innocent children and women. (still how were they innocent when the mother chose to marry a mobster? Right!) So, they still got away with much of it. What really began the fight against this culture was when people started caring about the poor working man who was dying because he wasn’t paying the mobster his rent. Then their wives and children were threatened. It was a vicious cycle.

        You think not as many people were killed before and I tell you just as many were killed in comparison to the amount of people then to now. Guns were accepted and a man protecting his rights was considered okay. A gun was a rightful way to protect themselves. Now -please -you even hurt someone who is trying to kill you -and you are likely to go to jail. (one reason I am for less gun control).
        The lawyers have made our country what it is -as they find loopholes in every law, in every situation they can figure out how to make money. It is because of these loopholes that hurt the innocent and make the crooked stronger -we have made laws.

        Time turns over and over -believe it or not -what has been will come again. It isn’t changing, we are only changing how we look at things, and what we call them.

        If you are to truly see, you must research and open your eyes to the past, not just the present. It is time that will be your teacher. If you refuse to look back -you will never be able to see the future except through glasses colored by your own current passion.

        Blinded by these glasses you can do more damage then what has already been done. This is where society is right now -blinded by “me” and my needs.

        Okay, don’t get involved in politics and go out and waste your time talking to me and other singular people. It is your choice. But, unless you are willing to make yourself truly vulnerable and face the nation -you won’t change much -a mind or two here and there -what does that do for you?

        I’m asking you to dwelve into the facts of time -and then find your path really doing something with your passion. But first, know what it is that needs to be done, (researching both sides and the past) then think about the bad and the good of what you want to change and weigh the consequences (that will come).

        If you refuse this mission -then we will fail. It is easy to walk away and no one will blame you, as it is a road few want to walk. Responsibility comes with a price. I am too old and the youth will not listen to me -it must come from the future generations. First, we must begin to care about our fellow man, one on one, (not just in law or money donated, time rallying) only then will we begin to take care of the corruption eating at our country like lifeless zombies. As always, good luck.

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      • First, I’m not young. I’m in my 50s, which gives me a longer view of things when I was much younger. I’ve evolved slowly from a moderate who thought government was the answer to a libertarian who thinks government is a disaster. The catalyst for that evolution was observing the world for the last 35 years.

        I used to believe that there were political solutions, but I am no longer convinced that there are. Although the evolution to the conservative end of the wading poll was gradual, I began to sour on the political process when President Obama told the country that elections of consequences, so the half of the country that voted against him should sit down and shut up while he fundamentally transformed our nation against our will. What shook my confidence that politics is useful tool for incremental change was when I watched the teaparty movement try to elect people to be representative of that small-government, Constitutionally-based philosophy they espoused. They managed to get some people elected … and what happened? Marco Rubio was a teaparty-backed candidate. As soon as he got into office, he showed himself to be a progressive Republican in favor of most things the teapartiers reject. In my own state of Alaska, folks (including myself) elected a bunch of “conservatives” to represent us in Juneau … to reduce the budget so that we could ride out the oil glut without saddling us with an economy-damaging personal income tax (among other issues). They got there and, as far as anyone can tell, most of them were bought off by the oil companies at the freshman lunch. They’re 15 days past the end of Legislative session and they have yet to pass a budget or any of the bills we sent them there to pass. The few who still seem to have integrity say they don’t know what to do. They can’t fix anything by themselves.

        Power corrupts the corruptible and most people are corruptible. Send a good person to Juneau or Washington and in 2 to 6 years she will owe her soul to the lobbyists and whoever is filling her war chest.

        And then there’s the people … the voters — who cannot be bothered to look into the record of the candidate representing their presumptive political party, who will vote for the guy with the best soundbite, or the coolest hair, or who manages to say she is the most qualified to lead us over a cliff. They don’t know or even want to know history or work out the logical conclusion of a bill. They want those corrupted politicians to do that and they’ll keep voting them into office so long as they don’t ax-murder a family of 5 or have sex with their housekeeper on national-televised nanny cam.

        Politics are a waste of time. It costs a million dollars to get elected to Congress these days. There is one representative for every 720,000 citizens — another outgrowth of the Progressive Era, by the way. We haven’t reapportioned properly since since 1922. There are 465 people supposedly representing our interests in DC. 321 of those come from states east of the Mississippi, so a representative from Alaska might as well be shouting into the wind. She would have a snowball’s chance in hell to effect any sort of positive change in Washington … assuming some lobbyist or donor doesn’t hit her magic button for being corrupted. And, if she were able to make a change, the nation would reject her because they don’t think that’s what they want.

        You can’t reform entitlement programs because Granny might have to go live with her son and daughter-in-law because she never paid off a mortgage in her life, not even the one for the retirement condo in the retirement community with wrap-around services. You can’t even have a reasonable conversation about reducing the military because the neo-cons have everyone convinced that Guatemala will take us over if we scale back our presence on Okinawa. The Dept of Ed must be involved in schools at the local level because schools have gotten so much worse since the Dept of Ed was created 40 years that clearly local schools need oversight. We have to have all these laws overseeing every aspect of our lives because people are corrupt and the answer to that is control by even more corrupt government employees. By the way, I’m a government employee and most of my coworkers can’t control their own lives, but are convinced they can control yours.

        No, the answer is more liberty, not less. When you concentrate power in the hands of a few it becomes corrosive, but when you spread it out into the hands of many, no single person can do a great deal of harm. (Quoting de Toquevill there, btw). When government is small and lacks resources, people can’t appeal to it to fill their desires or their wallets. (Thomas Jefferson). Yeah, some unintended negative consequences might evolve from allowing people to think for themselves, but that would be insignificant compared to the totalitarian society that is growing under us right this moment.

        And, I talk on the Internet because Thomas Paine would … were he alive today. The American Revolution was a long time in coming and it started with folks like Paine educating the thinkers of the colonies in the principles of liberty. That went on for a long time (there were seven years of the Committees of Correspondence trying to avoid war, for example). Had that not occurred, America’s revolution for liberty would have been another Reign of Terror.

        One hopes that the day will come with our constituent states have had enough and demand an amicable separation rather than going to war. The United States of America could remain connected and working together if the federal government would release its stranglehold on the states and if the blue states (which are really blue cities surrounded by red regions) would stop dictating to the people who grow their food, mine their minerals and bury their trash. But first, “red state” people have to wake up and recognize that tyranny is wrong, even if it is a tyranny of population density. They have to be reminded of their rights and become willing to reclaim them. And that starts with educating them. Congressional representatives can’t do that. They’re too busy being wined and dined by Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

        And, by the way, I think it would be a lot easier to care about our fellow man if our fellow man didn’t think he had the right to stick us up at the ballot box and impoverish us so that he can have free housing, food and medical care. Again, a small, comparatively weak government that is only allowed to protect the borders and negotiate between states that can’t get along would not have the resources to make the ballot box stick-up worth anyone’s effort.

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      • Exactly -on so many counts exactly. Now we are speaking the same language, in every respect accept in division. Division will make our country weak, and we will be taken over by other countries. Also, China and Russian are only held in check by the dynamic duo duking it out and two sides against one help to balance control. My father fought in two wars for our freedom -I don’t want someone coming over here telling my daughters they are not allowed to be educated, or show their skin because some third world country wants even more control over us then what we have now.

        The part about a woman from Alaska not making an impact. As I recall little old sarah Palin made quite and impact before the “sins” of her family became the forefront of her campaign -screwing her chances.

        Listen, I’m not ‘for’ the government invasion of every detail. I’m not ‘for’ these people running for office. But, I am surely not for division, and giving control over to people who could care less if my family even lives beyond tonight.

        Again, I do not have the answers. I can only see to the end of my nose. If I am wrong and the country continues down this path of self-destruction -I’ve done my best to support my country that I was able.

        If you are right and the country supports your ideals and we tank -you’ve done the best you could for your country.

        If nothing else happens -the people banning together in one fashion or another will force change. I just hope we head down the yellow brick road to “home” rather then take the road lead by the Cheshire cat. Now I ask -which one of us is which?

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      • The division already exists. Urban “blue” bi-coastal elites and rural/suburban (red) flyovers don’t agree on the direction the country should go in. The “blues” want more central planning and homogenous society where everyone thinks alike and lives on similar incomes in very similar apartments in “walkable” cities with mass transit at curb side and jobs that don’t require getting dirty. The rest of the country wants the liberty to explore their own interests and don’t mind getting dirty to accomplish things in life. Some of us have thought about it enough that we can articulate what we’re feeling. We know that the country is angry, that we’re fighting and squabbling over stupid things that really shouldn’t matter (like who is President). There are huge philosophical divisions that in past generations would have been resolved by moving away from one another. But that is no longer possible — not because there is no room to move, but because the urban progressive elites now have the technology to insert themselves into the lives of the more libertarian people regardless of where they choose to live. They do it with the best of intentions. They believe they know better and they really can’t understand why the people they’re interfering with are objecting to their “help”. That their benevolent oversight comes at a huge price to the people they are oppressing never occurs to them. They mean well. Just accept their more enlightened guidance.

        In the meantime, their policies are destroying jobs and driving up costs and forcing increasing numbers of people to live in cities and on welfare. And, they say, “see, we were right. Your way of life was unsustainable. It’s so much better now.” They never see or refuse to recognize that their policies are what made those lifestyles unsustainable.

        Yes, I would just as soon Alaska succeed from the union because I don’t think there is any advantage to Alaska in being a state. We are treated like a colony with the motherland raping our resources while we’re forced to live under a constrained economy by federal edict. But I don’t necessarily think other states ought to completely devolve into 48 separate nations. The federal government has advantages. Banding together to protect the borders makes us much sense now as it did in the 1780s. But why does the federal government need to be involved in public schools or streets or health care or …. Why can’t decisions be made by local officials who have must face their neighbors in person rather than by DC bureaucrats who will never see the consequences of their policies?

        But instead, we now use the federal government to bludgeon our literal across-the-fence neighbor into doing what we want. When 49% of the country is told to sit down and shut up for 4-8 years because elections have consequences … that pushes us toward revolution because that’s the only way left to resolve things.

        So, we aren’t shooting at one another yet (mostly), but the current election shows just how angry people have become. Ultimately, I trust me to decide how to conduct my affairs more than I trust Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders to know what’s best for me.

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      • I wish it was all that simple. Why? Power -it is addictive, maybe more so then meth, heroine and cocaine. Alaska hold some of the riches soil in the world -good luck!

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      • You’re absolutely right. Power is the ultimate drug and nobody gives up willingly.

        There are stress cracks all over the nation and that’s why I think we’re going to breakup within my lifetime. The question is — do we do it amicably, still retaining a federal nature where we cooperate on things like national security and diplomacy or do we divorce and end up fighting one another. If we do it in a relaxation of ties kind of way, we won’t need to worry about invasion. If we end up fighting — well, Alaska has actual resources to buy some protection. I wouldn’t want to be a blue state that’s been pushing financial services for a century if things fall apart. The people in the cities are going to wish they hadn’t been so snotty to the people who grow their food.

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      • You’re latterly scaring me. Why? Because you support an action that threatens the lives of Alaskans and people you have shared your life as teammates with. Yes, you do have resources that would help you buy help in a battle -but then they will own you. Your debt ceiling will be so high by the time the war is over, you won’t own a thing, including (probably) your very lives. You don’t have enough people living in your state to support it as it stands. Do you realize the high population of people that are a combination of these things: drug addicts, drunks, off the grid, to far out to be of service, and people living off of the US as a whole. The rest of you -can you do it all alone? We’re not just talking about a war -but the very ability to support your state (country). Roads, welfare, disability, jails, police, fireman, hospitals, government, military -the list goes on an on. I am afraid for each of you. I am also afraid that you will turn your gun and kill me to have separation. Why? How could you decide that separation is more important then lives? Are you telling me you are so oppressed that you would rather kill your fellow man then to remain in a country that forces you to apply for a license to have a yard sale? I would never divide as the US unless my country divides from me. That is a forced situation, nothing something I will spend my hours, my days fighting for. I’m sorry for you and the rest of the believers that are working to obtain this goal.

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      • I didn’t mean to drop this conversation. I just got busy over the weekend and then Monday was a Monday.

        Secession does not have to be violent. I think of how the British are considering secession from the EU. There is no violence there. They plan to stay friendly with the continent. While the election hasn’t taken place yet, it’s being considered because some of the British recognize the EU is an unsustainable behemoth that is likely to suck the individual countries dry. They want to stay friendly, but to ease the ties that bind them. The world won’t end if England secedes from the union, though the EU itself might as there are folks in other countries thinking the same thing.

        These are the same pressures that exist on the individual states of the Untied States. Some of the same pressures you bring out are what is stressing the EU and the US – drug addicts, welfare recipients, immigrants who enter the country not to work, but to take advantage of the “free” stuff. So what happens if England secedes? They’ll have to decide for themselves and their decision will be a uniquely British solution. Instead of having to think about what is best for Greece and Spain, England can decide what is best for England.

        Here in the US, I don’t think the republic will end if we “secede” in a friendly, non-violent way.. DC will fade in dominance. It will continue to be an important component for diplomacy and military defense. It may act as a source for standards — all roads might meet a minimum standard, for example. But individual states are better equipped to handle their own internal issues. For example, Alaska could build roads that don’t melt the permafrost and holds up to ground that seasonally moves because of cold and thaw. We know how to do that. We’ve done it with state funds, but when we take federal highway funds, we are forced to build roads that only last a few years. That’s a function of the federal government wanting roads built to their standards, even when their standards don’t work here. You see, the problem is much deeper than garage sales.

        Ultimately, though, it comes down to this. We can hold on so tight to the American empire and maybe keep it propped up for a couple more decades, but sooner or later, it’s going to go the way of the Roman Empire, which came to this place in history itself. Eventually, it failed and people starved and died. That’s our future if we don’t plan for it. Peaceful secession is one way to avoid a total crash. And, yeah, it might mean that some states will choose not to provide “free” stuff to people who don’t work. The non-working are then free to go to another state that has chosen to provide “free” stuff. I don’t think that will last for a long time because, as you pointed out, the states that are most likely to offer “free” stuff are the states without resources. Without the rural, mining states to draw from, states like New York and California are going to find it difficult to keep offering “free” stuff.

        And, again, I will state this — I am not trying to force this outcome. I see it as inevitable and when enough Alaskans finally see it to, I will vote with them for a peaceful dissolution of statehood. I hope we stay friendly with the Lower 48. My daughter lives there as do many relatives. But Alaska needs to look to its own interests and statehood was never in our interest.

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      • But you are trying to force this outcome. Look at how much time you are investing in just typing to me. Is it to convince me? Probably.

        The more people who gather and talk around the table, the more likely the issue will keep popping up until people act upon something. Just because I believe something doesn’t make it right.

        This is what has happened with so many subjects: gay marriage, abortion, gun control, men using female bathrooms -you see the list keeps growing and those that have an issue keep pushing. The end result -“we have to fix it” and then the majority are effected by those with the biggest mouths and have gained the influence out of “fixing the problem.”

        I don’t want to be a part of this. It is upsetting and disturbing that there are people who don’t want to work together, staying strong -but wish to weaken our great country making us vulnerable for a take over.

        I don’t just want my state to stay strong, but yours as well. Do as you must but please stop trying to convince me. The moment you spoke of violence my heart trembled in disdain.

        If you would like to be friends -I always do my best to love everybody -but your friendship must come without talk of this nature.

        Politics, you name it -I”ll talk anything. Together we can attempt to solve all of the worlds problems and just have fun doing so. I’m not of the means to make changes on this scale -but I will support you for your efforts as long as it means our country staying united.

        If you wishes are so against mine you can not be friends on these terms -I support that as well. But, this is the line I draw. I hope you understand -as I am as passionate about the united strength of our nation as you are about your own beliefs. I guess what I am saying is – “can’t we just agree to disagree and move on?”

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